tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post2157758890595878582..comments2024-02-11T01:14:21.904-08:00Comments on SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: 231 Killed: Learning from the Deadly Fire in BrazilFerFALhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07578136334334588454noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-4053964390326345442013-01-30T17:58:55.629-08:002013-01-30T17:58:55.629-08:00Great post. The media is obviously biased but its ...Great post. The media is obviously biased but its nice to see some research to back that claim up.exithttp://noaxioms.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-38275618757504980722013-01-30T17:01:22.265-08:002013-01-30T17:01:22.265-08:00In 1990, Julio González killed 89 people by settin...In 1990, Julio González killed 89 people by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire" rel="nofollow">setting fire to the Happy Land club</a> in New York City.<br /><br /><i>The evening of the fire, González had argued with his former <br />girlfriend, Lydia Feliciano, a coat check girl at the club, <br />urging her to quit. She claimed that she had had enough of <br />him and wanted nothing to do with him anymore. González <br />tried to fight back into the club but was ejected by the <br />bouncer. He was heard to scream drunken threats in the <br />process. <br /><br />González was enraged, not just because of losing Lydia, but <br />also because he had recently lost his job at a lamp factory, <br />was impoverished, and had virtually no companions. <br /><br />González returned to the establishment with a plastic <br />container of gasoline which he found on the ground and had <br />filled at a gas station. He spread the fuel on the only <br />staircase into the club. Two matches were then used to <br />ignite the gasoline.</i><br /><br /><br />In "<a href="http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/JMME2.htm" rel="nofollow">Ethical Problems of Mass Murder Coverage In The Mass Media</a>" (1993), Clayton Cramer noted that this mass murder received less coverage than shootings with far less victims.<br /><br />The whole thing is worth reading, because Cramer actually quantifies this disparity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-2360477950202084262013-01-30T12:41:28.116-08:002013-01-30T12:41:28.116-08:00Hi Ferfal, long-time fan...
I'm trained as a ...Hi Ferfal, long-time fan...<br /><br />I'm trained as a wildland firefighter for the US Forest Service. One of the things that we train on is a possible entrapment, which is when we cannot escape the fire and must deploy our fire shelters ("shake & bake bags"). Entrapments generally last from a few minutes to an hour or more, during which time you can be exposed to some serious, nearly lethal heat.<br /><br />Trainers are emphatic that you not breathe through a wet cloth when exposed to heat. Apparently steam does more damage to your airways than dry air at the same temperature.<br /><br />Maybe these are extreme and unusual circumstance, but I wouldn't want to chance it myself. Very few people actually burn to death. Most fatalities are from inhaling toxic and/or super-heated gasses.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />-AdamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-87259476356703593302013-01-30T06:04:06.841-08:002013-01-30T06:04:06.841-08:00To Adam and FerFAL,
You are both correct, in a wa...To Adam and FerFAL,<br /><br />You are both correct, in a way. Steam (especially superheated steam) can cause potentially lethal flash burns. What's worse, since superheated steam is invisible (the cloud you often see is actually condensing water vapor), it's possible to walk into it and not know it. That said, even in the hottest fire, I find it difficult to believe that the air temperature will be high enough to cause the water in the cloth to boil. If it is, then you've probably already been cooked to death, in which case suffocation is a moot point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-13635908648441577242013-01-29T20:59:09.245-08:002013-01-29T20:59:09.245-08:00Thanks for posting this vid FerFal. I think it dem...Thanks for posting this vid FerFal. I think it demonstrates how important situation awareness is. It will literally save your life. I'm going to make it a habit now to always check for at least 2 exits any time I enter a building.exithttp://noaxioms.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-48159034771294206382013-01-29T18:12:07.198-08:002013-01-29T18:12:07.198-08:00Hi Adam, Why are you recommending not to do so? Wa...Hi Adam, Why are you recommending not to do so? Water vapor doesnt kill you. I'm sure you walked into a steam room sometime in your life. <br />seems that what kills most people in these kind of fires is the highly toxic smoke of burning plastic which is usually used for sound proofing nightclubs and other decorations. A wet cloth is often recommended to help breathe when there's lots of smoke. "Washcloth - Place the wet cloth over your mouth and nose to aid breathing in smoke-filled areas." http://www.toronto.ca/fire/prevention/fireinsky.htmFerFALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07578136334334588454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-404864661555312362013-01-29T16:00:16.299-08:002013-01-29T16:00:16.299-08:00I have to comment about one thing. DO NOT try to b...I have to comment about one thing. DO NOT try to breathe through a wet cloth in a fire situation. Hot gasses are bad, but steam will kill you just as dead.<br />-AdamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8939666320943790100.post-20781544825605813012013-01-29T13:36:49.705-08:002013-01-29T13:36:49.705-08:00That is very scary. So sudden.
What really struck...That is very scary. So sudden.<br /><br />What really struck me was how badly so many of the people in the club reacted. Loud shrieking almost immediately, people milling around and blocking the exits.<br /><br />Other peoples stupidity is even more dangerous than the actual fire.Cingoldbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14512362800274380329noreply@blogger.com