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I just wanted to get your take on whether 9mm subguns are obsolete
these days? They seem like they would be easier to suppress than an
AR15 or AK, so that is one advantage. They also have a much lesser
chance of over-penetration through walls when compared to a carbine
rifle.
Some people are saying that subguns are obsolete because they can't be
concealed like a pistol and lack the power of a carbine rifle. What is
your take on this Mr. Aguirre?
.
Hello,
Many will say a pistol caliber carbine or sub gun is just a big gun firing an underpowered cartridge.
That may be true, then again, no one ever accused a 22LR carbine, (long arm, underpowered) of not being useful.
While some will see it as a waste and say that rifles should fire rifle rounds, I believe that a pistol caliber carbine or subgun is particularly useful from a survival and preparedness perspective.
Ammo logistics is the most obvious advantage.
In the wild west days carbines and revolvers shooting the same cartridge was a a particularly popular combo. Just one round to stock and carry, feeding both guns.
The same holds true today. My Winchester trapper 94 in 357 magnum is a handy little carbine. Its accurate and packs a punch, digesting hot 357 magnums and 38 special LRN alike. The revolver runs on the same ammo and gives you a handy tool for close up work.
The same logic applies to a 9mm carbine or sub gun. The possibility of using a sound suppressor sure is a plus if you have one. If you can have both guns running on the same mags its even better. I’m fond of the KPOS –Ronin conversion kits that use Glock pistols. You can basically put one Glock in it and get the advantages of a stock and easy optics installed, and have the exact same weapon as your sidearm with 100% compatibility in ammo, magazines and even the gun itself. Just a big bulky Glock? Sure, but that stock and foregrip means those 25 to 50 meter shots are MUCH easier and faster to make.
FerFAL
Fernando “FerFAL” Aguirre is the author of “The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse” and “Bugging Out and Relocating: When Staying is not an Option”
14 comments:
Sub guns are handy when fully automatic. Semi-auto? Nope. A gun fight to me means you need the same power and ability as your opposite or better, or you are at a disadvantage. Supply simplification does not matter in a firefight. How do you think things would work out if the following happens? I am 300 meters from you. I have a AR15. You have a lever 357. Who has the advantage? I love my .357 lever and Ruger Security Six. But I know which one I want. Lacking supply of your rifle means you failed planning. I never heard anyone say they used too much power to stop someone. I have heard the opposite. And yes a .22 longrifle rimfire can kill a fella, but the point of shooting someone is to stop them NOW! Not after they take the .22 away from you and beat you to death with it. And the comment about the rifle over penetrating but the pistol does not? There is a reason most SWAT teams have switched to 5.56 over a 9MM. Over penetration of the 9. The 5.56 with proper designed bullet won't do near as much. Light and fragments easily. I use 69gr OTM myself. Thinner jacket going fast = best. I really enjoy your site, but I just have a different opinion.NOG
We have a micro roni with a glock 17. Red dot sight mounted in top. Much easier to hit past room length. cant figure out a way to suppress it though.
With Buffalo Bore ammo the 357 carbine is the equal to 30-30 Win inside of 100 yards or so. With most 357 loads the carbine doubles the velocity and puts it within 500 ft lbs of most 30-30 win. cartridges.
If you are using a carbine pistol combo, the falter shooting 357 sig. would probably be the ideal round. Out of a pistol I don't like it, too expensive and little benifit. I suspect a carbine would change everything.
The pity is ... 10mm is not even in the conversation, WTF is up with that ? I built a 10mm AR that uses G20 mags. Along with a a G20 side arm , you can carry a Shit Ton of ammo and using mags that are perfect for both weapons... That is synergy !
That's such a great idea. Thanks. Something similar is the CMMG 22LR conversion bolt. Slide one into your 556 AR-pistol and you've got a nearly zero recoil semi with at least 50 meters range. More easily suppressed. Ammo is super cheap & abundant. Easy to carry lots of it in less space, etc....
I own a Ruger 9mm pc carbine takedown & a Ruger 10/22 takedown both fit nicely in my Ruger bag. I would absolutely take them with me in a SHTF SCENARIO with my AR-15 in hand.
MP-5 hk
This relates to a thought I've had rattling around in my head for a while.
Is it better to have all the guns in your group use the same ammo? Or different ammo? Obviously, it's easiest to stockpile a single kind of ammo.
Scavenging gets complicated. Using the most common calibers might mean that it's easy to find what you need. On the other hand, the most common calibers are what will run out first. Hypothetically, having a wide range of calibers in the group increases the chance that at least someone will be and to use whatever ammo you find.
Of course, the existence of caliber conversion kits complicates it further. Would it be worthwhile to buy a 40S&W pistol, and get conversion barrels for 9mm & 357 Sig? Or is it not worth the expense and excess weight?
Thoughts?
Depending on the load a 9mn will generally penetrate deeper than a 223, a few videos are available on YouTube. The 223 causes a much more significant wound channel because of its speed and ability to slow down. As far as carbines/ subguns for survival/ self defense. At least 8 manufactures will accept 9mm glock mags. In a bug out /survival bag the ruger carbine would make a good choice. In an urban gray man scenario a Kriss vector pistol in a pack and a glock on your hip is not a combo I would want to meet. Add a few glock hi capacity mags and you got a party. That being said I still prefer PCC that are built for that purpose IMO if your platform is almost identical in size of an AR, I would rather have the 223, But I’m a fan of Kriss, Ruger and kel tec for the reasons of magazine sharing and design. If you decide in the Kriss they also manufacture the 10mm, which has become a popular bear defense sidearm and the Kriss design cuts muzzle jump tremendously but you pay for it. $$$, I would like to hear other thoughts, this is always an interesting topic.
Is the hk mp5 dead I don't think so
My EDC is Kimber Ultra in 45 acp. My "long gun: is a Highpoint in 45 AFP. Neither has failed to feed whatever I put in them. I have a Henry lever action 22 for "squirrels".
I use a Roni with my Glock 17 and I love it for all the reasons mentioned above.
Agreed....even a .22lr is formidable at less than 100yards..dont think so...hold my target at 100 yards...what ?... I thought you said " a .22 ?..ha..".... when the lead is headed at you instead of away from you size doesnt matter...everyone and everything is still allergic to lead.
Keltec2000
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