Wednesday, September 8, 2010

Pistol Caliber Carbine Article

Written by Gabe Suarez, he puts into words many concepts I agree with but lack the language skills to explain as well as he did. Worth reading so as to understand why a pistol caliber carbine isn't just a big heavy pistol as some people seem to think. Make mine a Glock 31 shooting 357 SIG out of a FAB Defense SBR conversion kit :-)




Bones said...

Too bad they are not available WITHOUT government interference here in the US. :(

Double Tapper said...

Why is a pistol caliber carbine superior to a small .223 platform. The Keltec and the Mini-14 for example? My preference for the light .223 platform is that it penetrates way better than a pistol caliber.

Anonymous said...

Why is it better than 223? Because I live in a city. I rather stray rounds not go through my wall, my car, all my neighbor's walls... and maybe a tree hitting someone a half mile away.

Pitt said...

Bones we do have some PCCs that are available to US citizens without .gov being involved. The Beretta Storm in 9mm is one such creature. The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is another.

Double Tapper: You are totally ignoring what the article said. Mr. Suarez never said that the PCC was better than a small .223. He said that it was better in its tactical niche, which is as a close range, lightweight alternative to a pistol in home defense that will not be as prone to overpenetration or abusive recoil as a full size rifle or shotgun. The PCC is also a more friendly system for novice or petite shooters. Have you ever fired a shotgun or .223 inside a house or walled structure? I have. Its incredibly loud. I have also done the same thing with a Beretta Storm and while if left my ears ringing, it didn't deafen me.

These are big advantages inside a home.

Double Tapper said...


Off the bat, I have shot many subgun weapons and own a couple myself. I am very familiar with the concept and the reality of sub guns.

First off, a .223 55 grn will almost always fragment in ballistic gelatin. Does the same in the human body. VERY little chance of over penetration. I know this from anticdotal stories from medical personnel in the sand box to real world data from sanow (http://www.stoppingpower.net/books/book_handgun.asp). When I talk about penetration, I am referring to ability to defeat soft body armor, not over penetration. Some of the most notorious over penetrators are the 9 mm FMJ 115 grn and the .38 Special 158 grn - two very common rounds.

Second, any firearm is loud in a confined space. Some are louder than others. Any transonic round will be loud. I have fired plenty of weapons in confined spaces (mainly in indoor ranges with concrete walls - hard to get much louder than that).

Third, a pistol caliber round out of a semi-auto open bolt - such as the Uzi platform, is hard to aim. Open bolts are designed for full auto fire. They don't convert well to semi auto fire. They may well be easier to aim than a pistol because of sight radius. That is a training issue.

Fourth, if you are going to carry the weight of a carbine, you ought to get more than pistol ammo performance from your round. Jeff Cooper says it best in his books.

Sub guns are fun as heck to shoot. Give me a pistol, rifle or shotgun for serious work any day.