Sunday, September 28, 2008

Post SHTF Car of choice and ammo

I got a couple inquiries regarding what people choose to drive around here.

So, I'm curious, what sort of automobile would be a good choice for one living in Argentina? I don't know, but I'm a bit of a car nut, and the movies and TV stuff I've seen out of your country make it look as if the city folk in Argentina prefer VW Golf-sized European hatchbacks from Renault, Citroen, Fiat, etc. but it would appear that the early-1960s bodystyle Ford Falcons and Ford F-Series pickup trucks dominate the countryside, except for places where folks from the U.S. go to shoot large numbers of doves and ducks, where it seems like the transport consists exclusively of crew-cab 4x4 Japanese pickup trucks. Just curious.

Also, you can still buy ammunition, correct? I assume it's somewhat hard to get and more expensive than here in the 'States. Indeed, ammo prices have risen a great deal in the past few years here-cheap promotional packs of .22 LR ammo used to run around $10 per 550-cartridge package, and I think I paid over $14 with tax for one of those boxes of 550 the other day at Wal-Mart.

I love your blog, by the way, you have lots of interesting and thought-provoking information.


And another one:

In regard to TSHF vehicle, I have been thinking of getting an old Toyota 4x4 pickup truck with camper shelves...is it a good idea ?


R is correct about the choice of vehicles. Mostly people in the cit choose rather small Golf-sized European hatchbacks from Renault (206) , Citroen, Fiat, etc and people in the country go for older F-100 , or Falcons.
More modern 4x4 would include, probably the most popular and successful 4x4, the Toyota Hilux. There’s also Ford Rangers around, but Hilux easily dominates the market.
All of these vehicles are very often converted to NGC ( natural compressed gas) which is extremely cheap to use and still allows you to use diesel or gasoline.

What’s the perfect car for city/suburban use?
Lets see what you look for in a car after SHTF.

Of course it has to re reasonably priced, and spare parts and repair should also be easy to obtained and reasonably priced as well.

In our case, a cheaper fuel source became the natural course of action, so out car should be easily convertible to alternative fuels like NCG.
Here's the link to the post on NCG conversions: NCG car conversion

3) Given the amount of roadblocks, unemployed protesters, general debris that liter most streets, the usual traffic jams and the need to be able to squeeze trough narrow places to avoid roadblocks or escape during carjack attempts. It’s important to have a car that is not too big.

Big cars are sexy and size isn’t a problem in more rural settings, but if you’ll be navigating cities often size is important, your car should be preferable small or medium sized, nothing too large.

The car should be solid and powerful enough to A) Push against debris, blocking elements, cars, even pushing against people if protests become violent and your safety is at risk. You want tubes up front protecting the engine B) A good suspension because even though you are in the city, expect street conditions to decrease drastically in the next few years after the depression. You’d be surprised how BAD streets get without maintenance, true crates form, so you want enough ground clearance and good suspension.

For these same reasons you also want 4X4 if possible. Sometimes you have to go over boulevards, across muddy fields or even up the sidewalk to avoid protests roadblocks or to escape carjacks and mass robbery on highways.

For all these reasons a smaller SUV would be something that fits the bill.
Of course keep in mind that there’s a lot of differences between what’s available in my country and what can be found in USA.

A vehicle nearly perfect here in Argentina would be the Lada Niva, which is fairly popular here and converts to NCG very well.

Something popular here and also popular in USA would be the Jeep Cherokee.

Keep in mind these points, do your research and choose the best vehicle for you.

About the ammo question.

We still have ammo yes, but prices…
You complain about the 550 22LR packs. Here those same packs by Remington or Federal cost 50 to 60 USD , yes 60 dollars, so don’t complain much ;), buy more of it while it’s still cheap instead.

Take care everyone.



Anonymous said...

Thank you for the information, sir, truly interesting stuff.

I'm not really *complaining*, as even in the US, that $14 figure is pretty low by historical standards. My father bought .22 ammo as a child at his local hardware store in the late 1950s for 75 cents a box, or $7.50 per 500, and a dollar a box was a common price even 25 and 30 years ago when the US dollar could otherwise buy a lot more than today. $60, though, is awfully high, but still not as bad as a contact in Colombia who claims .22 LR ammo runs about $12 US, which I think is comparable to the current price in Brazil.

Thanks again, hope you survive and *thrive*, sir!


Anonymous said...

...to clarify something, I meant that in Colombia, .22 LR ammo runs $12 US per 50-round box, so $120 per 500 or $13.20 per 550, I suppose.


FerFAL said...

"I'm not really *complaining*, as even in the US, that $14 figure is pretty low by historical standards."

Don’t listen do me, I just get envious when you mention those ammo prices… ;^)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your blog. I would offer one caveat on the Jeep Cherokee. As an owner of that vehicle, I can attest that they are very unreliable and highly dependent on computers and electronics to function. I just had the transmission's computer replaced for $850 (yes, even the transmission is controlled/optimized by a computer!).

Anonymous said...

Ferfal -- Could you elaborate a little bit on exactly why you wished you had purchased gold?


Anonymous said...

My wife has driven a Suzuki XL-7 and it has (so far at least) proven to be an extremely reliable vehicle. About Jeep Cherokeeish size.

I would also recommend a small car / truck trailer to move any items you might be able to scavenge later on. I remember reading a blog which mentioned having a trailer that has same tires as your vehicle might be a good idea.

Ryan said...

I've got enough ammo for a pretty bad situation if I do not practice and constantly raid the stash. Having enough to do that is financially and logistically impossible for me and most normal folks.

Tracy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tracy said...

Re Anon 1210's comment on Jeep Cherokees being "unreliable"; perhaps he had a problem with his Cherokee, but they are NOT unreliable. I have had 3 of them (still have 2, and the third is still in the family); the lowest mileage one has over 160,000 and the other 2 have over 200,000, with no major problems ever among the 3. I also know many, many people who have them and love them. And I haven't babied mine either; they are used as daily drivers, road trippers and off roaders.
They are the only thing in their class that has a straight front axle, as opposed to the weaker and more problematic IFS, and they have an all-cast-iron inline 6 cylinder, unlike most of the competition which generally have I4s and V6s with aluminum heads, which fail if they overheat, such as if you puncture the radiator while pushing through an obstacle.
As for the computer controlled engine and transmission, name a late model vehicle that doesn't have that. Even diesels are computer controlled nowadays. But the computers are reliable. And even if one did fail, which would you rather buy: one for a Jeep, which are dirt common and of which millions were built, or something that was only built for a couple of years before a complete redesign? In the unlikely event of a computer failure, you can get one from a junkyard for $50, for a Cherokee.
And I forgot to mention, all 3 of mine get over 20 mpg.

BTW, I'm talking (as I'm sure Ferfal is) about the regular Cherokee; the XJ, which was built from 1987 to 2002 (though '90 and later with the 4.0 are the ones to get), NOT the Grand Cherokee. I've lost count of how many times someone has run down Cherokees and the poor service they had from one, until they finally mention that it was a GRAND CHEROKEE, which is not the same vehicle nor even based on the same platform.

If XJ Cherokees were so unreliable, why is it that millions were bought by the postal service, Border Patrol, USFS, BLM, NRC, BIA and many other government agencies, police and sheriff departments?

Anonymous said...

The gov't probably bought those vehicles because they're made in the USA. What other American options do they have for 4X4 vehicles. The police dept. in VA I worked for years ago always complained about its Jeeps. That was in the 90s. I think the model was called Laredo but it's been a while.

Almost every person I know that has driven a Jeep product has had major problems... every single person, and there have been many. Two of my good friends' Jeeps set on fire and burned.

I would much prefer to buy Made in USA products to foreign vehicles, and it's nice to hear of someone putting hundreds of thousands of miles on his fleet (all while getting over 20 mpg!) but I have seen too many horror stories involving Jeeps (including seeing the two burnt-out vehicles).

Peace all...

Anonymous said...

FWIW, I was in the mountains of North Carolina many years ago and noticed that it seemed like everyone living there drove a Subaru. I asked why they didn't drive Jeeps and the answer was -"Because we used to." True story.


Anonymous said...

Come on, dude. Take the hit to your pride and quit harassing Lowdown. It's only making you look like a jerk and these silly internet tiffs don't do anything for your reputation. You have good info to share, please don't let it get buried behind a veil of "That's the guy that was stirring up stuff with Lowdown."

And really, registering a blog under his name? That's kind of petty.

FerFAL said...

Hey Night, what would you do if I threatened to talk trash about you if you don’t do what I say?
Would you obey me?
Because that’s what happening here .

The Lowdown site was registered as a preventive measure.
I wont have this complete fool telling more lies about me.
And I intend to use the blog if needed.
People that are confused WILL hear both stories if he continues to bother me.

If you think my “reputation” is at risk here, please comprehend that you have no idea how much support I’m getting, compared to the handful of LD3 buddies that are complaining.

I said what I know to be true.
If you can’t see that that guy has been crying “the sky is falling” since the 90’s, just go back and check for yourself.

He is indeed a Fear Merchant, and governments have other words to describe people like him, that spread panic during hard times.

Many people thanked me for warning them about such people, trying to make a profit out of other’s fear.

Take care.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
FerFAL said...

Hey Matty, can you guys cut it out already.
If anyoen is huirting LD3's business that would be you guys constantly bringing this issue up.

Could you please, pretty please just drop it?