Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Leaving the USA‏


Ferfal,
I have read your wonderful survival book and read many months of your truly great survival blog site. They cover so many meaningful subjects—thank you, you are doing a great service educating people on pending events and surviving through them. One topic that I could not find is any coverage regarding expatriating from the States.

There are many concerns of pending major events that are staring us in the face, which I think could/will happen within the next 24 months:
·                         major devaluation of the dollar/hyperinflation
·                         peak oil
·                         more government control of our lives
·                         more taxes including mega-taxation starting in 2011 and especially in 2013
·                         potential bank holiday and/or martial law/police state
·                         world wide depression
·                         currency controls both into and flowing out of the US
·                         world wide food shortages

 
Any of the above can and will cause severe major civilian unrest, riots and increased crime around the world. I could easily see indefinite martial law in the US and a prolonged bank holiday like you had in Argentina.

I feel I’m somewhat prepared for a SHTF scenario. I have enough physical gold to make it worthwhile to ship and store some of it (using ViaMat) in Switzerland. I have guns, ammo, silver--mostly US coinage, electric generator and a year’s supply of freeze dried food for 2 people, some smaller denomination US currency etc. I’m retired military so I have some experience in using firearms and jungle survival, and we have been stationed overseas and still travel to foreign countries.

I receive ample government pensions but that, of course, could stop at any time or become essentially worthless in the future with hyperinflation. Our house is paid for. However, I envision that even with all the preparation as stated above may not be enough to survive.

I would like to leave the US for greener pastures where there is more privacy, less government intrusion, less taxes and no Bama. Mentioning our thoughts of relocating to a foreign country has been met with stiff opposition from contacts and friends that when TSHTF we would be treated as outsiders in a foreign country and be subject to more problems there than remaining in the States. I’ve read in forums people stating it would be safer to stay put in our home country. Moving and living in a foreign country supposedly you’d be treated as a second class group of immigrants (where the natives would turn against gringos who are using up precious food, fuel etc) and have limited means of owning weapons to defend yourself
 
My wife and I are in our early to mid 60’s and in good health. I’m eager to leave the US but my wife has several concerns. The 2 big ones are us not knowing Spanish and our older age. She said if we were in our 40’s she would be more receptive to doing a move.

My primary choice is Panama. My question to you is would moving to Panama be of any advantage to me and my wife prior to the SHTF? What do you suggest we do, sit tight, head for the hills or move overseas? Also constructive criticism of what we have done, have not done, acquired or not acquired will be most welcome.

Thanks,
Roy


Hi Roy,
First allow me to apologize for not replying sooner, it keeps getting harder to reply to everyone but I do my best.
Its understandable that given the current economic situation world wide, people want to leave their country looking for greener pastures as you said.
I’ve talked a bit before about relocating, try using the search function here and look up “Uruguay”. Its probably the only Latin American country that doesn’t feel 3rd worldly. Chile is solid but you have a serious problem with earthquakes. Brazil has some nice parts but the social difference between rich and poor is terrible there and that’s a can of worms you don’t want to open. Then you have Uruguay. Uruguay is cheap to live in because of the currency exchange rate but there’s a feeling about the people there of dignity and education, you don’t get that in the rest of Latin America. The current president of Uruguay wasn’t much of my liking but I recently heard him talk about not artificially protecting the country’s industry like Argentina did, letting the free market find its own way and wanting to turn Uruguay into a country that exports technology and knowledge to the neighboring countries. Uruguay is the only country in south America where every single kid in school was issued a laptop. I’d prefer it to Panama. Look up the article if you‘re interested, check the "reolcating" topic on the Topic Archive, lower left column.

Back to leaving USA, I see why a lot of people are considering it right now. Things aren’t looking good and they won’t BE good for a long time. The crisis will go on, maybe get worse, but is it going to be better in other places? What are you giving up for that cheap exchange rate? In most countries (Uruguay being one of the few exceptions in the world) you’re giving up security, and you’re getting yourself involved in a society Americans know very little about: Societies were there’s extreme poverty and a small, powerful elite.
Places like Panama, they are corrupt beyond what Americans are used to. Everyone is used to corrupt politicians, but not everyone is used to bribing cops and official authorities as an everyday fact of live.
And its not just about security. I simply do not like walking around the streets of a city and having people begging on the floor every 3 yards. Some people dig that, I don’t. I’ve read Doug Casey mentioning how people would work almost for food here in Argentina as if that were a bonus to a location. I suppose people have different opinions of what quality of life means.
I did a bit of research on Panama and it sounds good in many ways: cheap exchange rate, good gun laws, you can carry and own a broad variety of firearms. Small with excellent tropical climate… yet its still a 3rd world country and those of us that have lived in one for some time know what it means. Rest assured that for every American wanting to leave USA, there’s 100 that want to move in, often people that come from those same countries Americans consider relocating too.

Finally, its simply not home for you, and it will never be. Do you really want to live in a place you just don’t fit? Some lefty tree-hugging liberal may love living in Colombia, the province of Chaco here in Argentina or some other rat hole, but a conservative American wont. Your friends are right, you’ll always be a second class citizen. They’ll smile at you, most people will be nice, mostly those you do business with (no surprise there) but you’ll always be the rich gringo (even if you’re not rich ) that thinks he owns the world. If there’s ever a problem and they have to back someone up, you’ll always be in second place. Finally, you already have friends in USA, you wont be making good ones in Latin America any time soon. Not knowing Spanish will just make all of this worse, huge dissadvantage. Think about that before making a decision.

In America you can wake up every morning not worrying about a noise you’re not used to being someone trying to break into your house. You can walk or drive to the closest dinner without watching over your back every 10 seconds. You have the right to carry a firearm for self defense and if you ever use your gun in such a way, some filthy judge wont be asking you for some exorbitant bribe or even worse, throwing you in jail.
You have stores of every type, whatever hobby you have, you’ll find everything you need. That simply doesn’t happen in other countries. You like books? Even a small US city has huge book stores like nothing you’ll ever find in Latin America. You want to drive a car you like? You wont have to pay 5 times the price you pay for it in USA like you do in most 3rd world countries. Big brother is all over the world and in most other countries you don’t even have the right to privacy you have in USA. It just doesn’t compute in people’s head that a government sticking its nose into your business isn’t right.  Big brother is accepted  in the 3rd world with opened arms, it always has. Don’t think you’re getting free of that by moving elsewhere.
I understand downsizing, maybe moving to a cheaper state, but leaving USA? Not really, not unless some mayor event forces you out of it and what’s happening now occurs all over the world to a  greater or lesser degree. All in all, USA is a good place to be in during this storm.
You have taxes in other countries as well, and even worse, in 3rd world countries you have corruption that will bite you when you least expect it. Give me taxes over corruption any day, specially when those taxes aren’t being entirely stolen and going to the president’s pocket like it occur in 3rd world countries.
In spite of everything wrong with it, America is still a bastion of freedom. Anyone doubting that just hasn’t spent enough time in other places and sure hasn’t suffered 3rd world countries.
I agree with your wife, I think you should stay in USA. Maybe make a few changes but stay in America unless you’re 100% sure of what you want to do.

If you want my advice, this is it: Stay in America, you’re already in the best country in the world, don’t give that up. You already have contacts, gear and friends in your location. You know the country and how it works. If you’re not happy with your current location, try moving somewhere else, preferably close to friends. Those are priceless. Weather you stay or move, get involved in your community, see how you can help out, try looking at it from a different angle. This helps a lot. It sure has helped me. Just as an example, I’m trying to find a place so that an acquaintance of mine can give self defense lessons. I’ve been asking around my neighborhood, local gyms and such.  I’m helping him out by finding him a place for the classes and maybe a few more students, and I’m benefiting from it too by having a good place to train near by. He’s also a police officer and I know he would gladly help if I ever need it. I also offered to review the security of my kids school. Don’t underestimate the power of getting involved and talking to people. Your community is one of your most important assets, even if when the chips are down 9 out of 10 people wont be there, there’s still that one guy you can count on.
Hope that helped some.
Take care,

FerFAL

29 comments:

Anna said...

I've posted before on here, about being half american & middle-eastern, those of us who moved here from elsewhere are largely in agreement with Ferfal - sure it has issues but every other country does too. Besides, now we have nowhere else to go, besides Canada maybe. And we are not about to pack up and move yet again unless it gets really bad.

Granted I have not been in too many countries but I have been back to my parent's country to visit. It is nice, but ya know, I just don't want to live in a city with extensive anti-car-bombing measures if you know what I mean.

A lot of the good things about being in USA are the ones that are hard to describe. Some things in comparison to the Middle East:
- the USA does not, as a rule, deploy the military against its own citizens.
- the army can't stop you because they don't like how you look, you actually have to appear to be breaking a law in order to be stopped.
- you can take pictures in public, even of the police!!
- you don't have to buy off the leader of the local militia
- everything costs the same for everyone, they don't jack the price up just because you look like a rich American
- 2 words: customer service
- you are not dependent upon who you are related to in order to be socially acceptable

I know those are silly reasons but I think you get my drift.

Anna said...

oh yeah, one more thing: in the US, you can actually legally fight back against the police state, and win. Which is what I intend to do.

In the ME not only do you have the "official" (usually impotent) police state, you also have the 1,978 unofficial police states. And you can't fight against any of them, you can only act like a dumb sheep and hope they aren't cranky today.

Anonymous said...

There's also the strategic aspect to consider in relocation. If things get bad enough that the USA is too busy with internal problems to maintain the Monroe Doctrine, there will be a fight between local and distant powers over control of the Western hemisphere--which depends in great part on who runs the Panama Canal. Panamanian and foreign intelligence services will take interest in Americans.

Maldek said...

Different point of view.

For the benefit of the original email sender (hope you read this) I would like to present a different view.

Panama is great for US people. Lots of english speaking ex-pats there. Go subscribe to sovereignman.com - he got a lot of good info for the (wealthy) american and gives very good points to "plant multiple flags" so to speak.
He got all the info you will ever need.

A few comments:
"you’re already in the best country in the world, don’t give that up. "
>>> I personaly wouldnt give this elusive position to a country that has been in constant war for decades. And I had my fair share of military time as you perhaps know.

"Give me taxes over corruption any day"
>>> In sweden you may work until august for the goverment (taxes) and have 0 corruption. Must be great.
In reality - corruption is good if you have enough money. Then corruption works FOR you.
It is an extra option; to pay for the fast and easy way.

"Anyone doubting that just hasn’t spent enough time in other places and sure hasn’t suffered 3rd world countries."
>>> Currently living in Paraguay (Info: Argentina and Paraguay are not exactly loving each other, never ever heared of an argentine person mentioning Paraguay in a positive way) - one of the two poorest countries in south america.
Clearly a 3rd world country by all standards.
The amount of freedom here exceeds everything you will find in europe or the US.
Why? Because they could never afford the fancy TSA stuff, body scanners or the departement of homeland security. These things simply dont exist in a 3rd world country....

Bottomline: IMHO as a "not so poor" american in babyboomer age Panama sounds like a very good choice to me.

The point FerFal made about friends is valid. Good friends are hard to find and a great asset in times of trouble. Whatever you do - you and your wife should REALY want the same thing.
Don't push her into something she does not feel comfortable with.
If you go ex-pat the two of you will rely on each other a lot.

Anonymous said...

I decided not to even consider moving elsewhere unless there was possibly a war on US soil and if that was the case I doubt other countries would like tons of Americans holing up there as refugees.

America is way ahead of where Argentina was in 2000, we didn't even really have tent cities here in 2005 much less the established shantytowns that are de rigeur in Argentina and elsewhere in LAm and have been for decades. We're still a long way from the 1930s shantytowns we had, I've seen pix of Louis Camp that was at the north end of 20th Street in Sacramento, and there's nothing like that here even now two years after the 2008 crisis.

I don't think people realize how good we've got it here, and even if we did have Obamavilles spring up they wouldn't be there forever unless things got a lot worse than they are now. America has mountain ranges that have foothills teeming with wild food, Argentina doesn't have that. I can drive east for 40 miles and have practically everything I need to live available in nature, including fresh water. Even in the middle of the Nevada desert there are mountain ranges that have life on their upper slopes.

Short of a foreign invasion of the USA, there's really no reason to leave. The dollar will be worthless, so people will just do business in silver and copper (pre-1982 pennies). After the feds stop paying welfare, I wouldn't be in the middle of Los Angeles if that happens, but if you're in the countryside people will make do.

Anonymous said...

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/20th-hoovervilles.html

This page has a photo that I believe is Sacramento's Louis Camp, at the bottom. There's also a history of Depression shantytowns at that site, and a photo of an engineless car pulled by a horse, aka "Hoover buggy". I challenge the OP to find ANYTHING like THAT in today's USA!

CapnRick said...

Hi, Roy. I'm in my third year of living in Argentina, my wife's home in Mar del Plata. It's beautiful and I love it here... I miss it when I'm gone.

I have been fluent in Spanish most of my life, lived 3 years in Mexico and 2 years in Puerto Rico. I get around as good here as I do in the US. Yet, I wouldn't have even considered moving here if I wasn't very good with communicating in Spanish. Even with all the advantages I have, the transition was still difficult. Call me on Skype as CapnRick if you want to hear about those issues.

Give some thought to the following issues.

1. All of the reasons you outline to leave the USA are happening or have already happened in the rest of the world. Thre is NO place on earth that will let you move there if they have resolved all those problems. They don't want to be overrun with POd gringos seeking to escape the mess caused by the politicians we elected. (I apologise to the younger generations for my generation having turned over our country to people who hate us and everything we stand for... and a politicians who refuse to salute the American flag.)

2. The entry restrictions have tightened up and gotten more expensive since I moved here. I couldn't even qualify if I weren't married to an Argentine citizen. When you start actually lining up all the requirements to emigrate to a foreign country, you realize that the amount of expen$e and irritation at the burocracy involved. If you want an idea of how hypocritical the Mexican government is abouth the new immigrations laws in the USA, take a look at their immigration requirements. Many governments... Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Argentina have a definite lack of interest in US citizens seeking to immigrate.

3. That said... Panama is your best bet, but don't sell your home in the US. Put a caretaker in charge of it or a realtor to rent it out (good source of highly deductible income) because the rot you see affecting you inb the US will definitely follow us all throughout the world.

Panama uses the US dollar as it's currency, the immigration is the easiest around, some insurance companies in the US have Panamanian subsidiaries and can cover you there, including (used to be???) BlueCroddss/Blue Shield, and the banking/money transfer is the easies in the world. Trust me when I say that the US and the rest of the world is tightening up so that it is VERY difficult and VERY costly to move money around. You will be shocked. I struggle with it every month.

Roy, it sounds as if you have things squared away much better that 90% of the rest of the world when it comes to preps. You sound like a person with their head on their shoulders and eyes wide open. I hope you will listen to your wife and listen to Fernando.

For every person who wants to leave the USA theres over 1,000 who want to move there.

Be safe -CapnRick

Anonymous said...

A large part of Panama's budget comes from fees collected on the Panama Canal. If the global economy falls apart, Canal transit will drop and Panama's budget will get ugly quick. Living in Panama is a bet that the world economy is going to go great.

CapnRick said...

This guy addresses the relocation issues with interesting daily emails.

http://www.sovereignman.com/

Good luck

Anonymous said...

Wow Ferfal, that was a great article and I loved your response. Glad to hear someone who has a great opinion of America!

Anonymous said...

here's an awesome expat. website.

escapeartist.com

Every detail you need to know to move abroad whether you are rich or poor.

russell1200 said...

If you are not happy, work toward getting some new friends.

Close friendships are very closely related to a persons sense of happiness and well being.

One of the reasons that so many in the US are unhappy is because we feel socially isolated.

You have to wonder how accommodating Panama and some of these other places will be if the SHTF in the US. Small countries are also very at risk from outside meddling and invasion: both of which are about as common as economic collapse. Remember that Panama used to be part of Columbia until the US separated it so they could get a canal built.

Anna said...

Haha I thought of another reason: in the US, the police & military still have a sense of professional ethics. If an american soldier kidnaps and rapes a woman, any woman, he is in a whole lot of freaking trouble including lots of jail time. In the ME, the attitude is, whatever, he is a soldier what do you expect.

DaShui said...

I think Switzerland is better than the USA, low taxes, federal system, positive trade balance, mandatory gun ownership (William Tell), 500 years of democracy, their money until recently backed by gold, they keep out of other countries affairs, a Swiss passport has more benefits than an American one.
However you have to be rich to emigrate there (Tina Turner).

For us poor people, America is the best place. And we need no BS guys like him for whats coming down. I can't imagine there not being political turmoil as American's (Japan and Europe, too) living standards drop.

Don Williams said...

1) I've heard that Costa Rica is also popular with American retirees. I don't know the pros/cons of it versus Panama.

2) I would think that high quality medical care will become increasingly valuable to Roy and his wife in the next 10 years. Such care is available in some parts of South America as well as in some parts of the USA -- but
it is cheap nowhere. Why would Roy want to give up the Veterans medical care that is provided by the US Government to military retirees for free/very low
costs?

Plus the FDA ensures the safety of US medicines. Who does that in Panama? A number of people died there from cough syrup with antifreeze in it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18518915/ns/health-health_care

3) I also think Roy's military pension is relatively safe. Washington very much needs to be sure of the continued loyalty of the military and you do not keep that by screwing the retirees.

4) Roy should also realize that Glenn Beck is full of crap. The one thing the man of property in the USA does not have to worry about is creeping socialism.

The richest 2 percent of the US population has increased its share
of the national income from 10 percent in 1980 to 25 percent today. That march upward has been relentless, regardless of which party is in power. How many of those Wall Street traders has Obama sent to jail? How many of them have had to return any of those $Million dollar bonuses they got in years past?


5) Another thing to consider is that China is moving into Panama. The ports at both ends of the Canal are operated by China's Hutchinson Whampoa.

http://www.hutchison-whampoa.com/eng/ports/international/the_americas.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7131205.stm

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/china-eyes-panama-canal-expansion/story-e6frg90o-1225827691243

6) So long as Roy is a US citizen, he will have to file a US income tax return every year --which requires him to provide list of his foreign bank accounts.

On the other hand, maybe the US government would find it a lot harder to bully the Bank of China in Panama than the Swiss. heh

Anonymous said...

TO THE OP - suck it up...

WE CREATED THIS PROBLEM.

WE NEED TO RESOLVE IT.

And we need YOUR help. And all YOUR FRIENDS HELP THAT THINKS LIKE YOU. Prepared and ready to repel boarders.

If you are a military retiree, consider getting into the Military Vehicle hobby. Good place to put some money, LOADS OF PEOPLE OF LIKE MIND and you would fit right in.

Jumpthestack said...

Don't forget there are more or less free areas in the US, so if you live in e.g. California or New York or New Jersey, you could get a decent amount of additional freedom just by moving to New Hampshire or Wyoming, etc.

Bill in NC said...

Mexico worked very well for my mom when a new drug she was desperate to try was available at a clinic there (already used in Europe, but not approved in the U.S. until years later - thanks FDA!)

While it didn't work as well as we hoped she was much, much more comfortable in her private room in the small (15 patient) private home down there.

She lasted another 5 years down in sunny Mexico, and was as happy as could be expected given the advanced condition of her illness.

Anonymous said...

Re: Roy possibly moving to Panama.
Panama has a large American and Ex-pat community who speak English. Panamanians do speak English.
Political, banking, utilities are stable. Close to US also.

All depends on what you are willing to tolerate and do without.
Good luck!

Anonymous said...

If I were one to sit back and criticize others I would seriously look around my own life and ask myself, "What am I personally doing myself that I feel the need to criticize others?

Glenn Beck at least is doing his best to educate and to warn the American people about what is coming and to pray, to prepare and turn back to God. We need this.

I for one, appreciate Glenn Beck and his show is #1 amongst Conservative Americans, of which I am one.

I love America and I do believe we will take our Country back from this "gangster shadow government" planned take-down, which is actively promoting socialism, marxism and everything that is anti-American. To live in America and to be disloyal to your own Country is the worst.

You are right, Ferfal, for all it's faults it's still the best place to live in the world.

God bless America and be with you all.

Anonymous said...

Ferf ol' pal, good post.

I grew up in Hawaii. I know a ton about Hawaii's history, Native legends, the vegetation, farming methods, fishing, how to build houses and nets and everything else the Native way, but I am "Haole". Caucasian (with a little American Indian) and living there isn't tenable for me. Last hired, first fired, least paid. Walking While White can get a person in real trouble with the cops over there.

I live in California, the state of my birth, now. Perfect? No, but a hell a lot better than the "Haole Go Home" islands. I'm about right for California, speak Californian perfectly (say "winder" for winter, know the "R" really should be rolled in "Carnitas") and being mostly white but part American Indian have my place in the white to Hispanic, pale to brown, spectrum.

This is where I think Joe Bageant is wrong. Playing White Santa Claus works in Belize as long as the world economy is good and White Santa Claus has something in his bag he can spare and give freely. Eventually that has to come to an end. I think the memory of the British Raj is embedded in subjects of the USA's memories somewhere, and there's this fantasy of just going and hiding out with the noble humble little brown people. And it just doesn't work that way. Henry Miller nearly starved among the French, Orwell ultimately preferred bumming it in England to being in France; even when race is almost identical, culture or ethnicity is telling.

We're entering times where race, and even mere ethnicity, small cultural differences, will mean life or death.

Anonymous said...

One of my reasons for considering leaving the country was the apathy and ignorance of Americans. I'm sick and tired of living in the land of the brain dead. Fortunately this seems to be changing, but is it enough and is it too late? This country will go though hell when the currency heads for zero and will they be able to stop it? If it hyper inflates, we could see a worse case scenario and total collapse. However, the chance of that is low at this time and it more likely that there will be revaluation and a gradual decent into grinding poverty, where not only food becomes the issue, but medicine as well, and where all plans to survive a catastophic event become moot.

There are few that have a good grasp on the situation. Comparisons to this or that example in history are helpful, yet truly no one knows what will happen, or just how brutal it will get. There is no way to stop what the Fed has done. The country is going down hard. Planning for the worst is the best policy. If we do not fight like our lives depend upon it now, we will certainly be fighting for our lives latter. And frankly, I haven't found enough Americans worthy of my life, so until I see that, I reserve the option to leave, that is of course, they'll let me.

Anonymous said...

As someone who has traveled extensively outside of the US, I really think most Americans who think they will somehow find "greener pastures" in 3d world countries haven't gotten out of Dodge much, if at all. It's one thing to go to South America or Thailand or Spain or wherever on holiday with a pocket full of credit cards and cash, but quite another to relocate.

As numerous people have pointed out, no matter where you go, you will never be accepted, particularly if you go to a country where your race is not the majority. You'll always be the rich American, whether you are rich or not, and it will always be them first, and you dead last. Not knowing the language only turns you into a "rich arrogant American", though probably the terms used won't be so polite.

I'm always seeing these glowing articles describing the paradise that awaits you in such and such country, how your middle class income in the US will allow you to live like a king there. Really? REALLY? Unless you have the capital to live like a drug lord or famous celebrity, you won't be issued a crown upon arrival, because in those places money rules all and unless you have tons to grease palms with, you will be just another person to be envied and hated.

Anonymous said...

All the comments have elements of truth. Anna may be have the clearest sight of all. Having lived in various countries during my military service and in Panama employed by the US run Panama Canal I can vouch for a touch of corruption making life easier. When it becomes endemic life becomes 365 "just get through its." I left Panama during the Noriega regime so my information is very dated. Does you bank or jewelry store have air lock entrances with armed guards on both sides? NO, Panama may not be for you.

Jeff said...

Canada is a good option --- look at the IRS/INS stats of US Expats and you will see the majority go there.

I've lived there, plus UK and US. Pro's for Canada are language, banking, social customs, and proximity to US friends. Con's are payroll taxes and its a bit of a nanny state. Gun laws blow if you are in the 'burbs, but what happens in the countryside stays in the countryside if you follow.

That being said, there are important regional differences that you can optimize on-- Alberta/Sask are akin to Texas in mentality. Ontario is center left, and BC is comparable to California.

Anonymous said...

Canada may not be much better off than the US if things go bad. I was doing a little research on the Great Depression a few days ago, and the Canadian prairie was slammed HARD by that collapse. Cash strapped provinces raised fuel taxes-one of the few taxes they directly controlled-so high to the point where nobody could afford gas.

Canadians had bought millions of cheap autos, mainly from the US, in the 20s, and when the collapse hit and fuel taxes jumped people were forced to remove the engines from their cars and pull them with horses! The phenomenon was called "Hoover Wagon" in the US and "Bennett Buggy" in Canada after Hoover's CDN counterpart. One of the only photos of these conveyances that survives comes from the University of Saskatchewan's collection, and shows a battered tonneau top touring car with the engine and front fenders removed and hooked to two gorgeous white horses.

There's usually little food in the countryside after a collapse-look at Argentina. Unless you're in an area with plentiful wild food, or in a city near food sources, you will starve. I think that the coming collapse will hammer EVERYBODY, and you may be better off staying where you are.

Americans emigrated in the tens of thousands to the USSR in the early 30s, only to see their status go from honored guest to hated enemy when things went bad. Stalin rounded up ALL of the Americans in the USSR, and those not immediately executed were shipped to Siberia where they were starved or frozen to death. The Americans begged the US Embassy for help, and were turned away. The American govt viewed them as turncoats, the USSR govt as evil foreigners, and none of them lived.

Expect something similar to happen to expats this time around. Possibly even in Canada, or even in parts of the USA with lots of immigrants from elsewhere. People in Nevada and Oregon could easily turn on "Californians". The hatred is there, remove govt authority and things would get ugly quick. I spent time in Nevada (Californian here) and decided against moving to a place with "I don't care how things are done in California!" bumper stickers on every other car. I'd rather be in Placerville, at least there's wild food. If Nevadans had to survive on what's in the desert, most of them would die.

Anonymous said...

Been reading you for a couple of years Ferfal. Very good info you have.
Iv'e often thought when things go bad in the U.S.of A. that I may consider Mexico where I have Family and Friends.
You have spoken some TRUE words of Wisdom with this article. I am re-considering my out-look and guessing that the fight is on in the USA.
I'm kinda figuring that when the time comes the STAND will have to be made here!

Anonymous said...

Please refer to Orlov's recent:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/
A letter from an expat.
As Dmitri says in the preface, he hasn't had a dissenting response to this comment.
To those of you from other countries that wish to come here, come! It is entirely possible it will be far better than where you are right now.
But for those of us who have lived our lives here through countless sellouts that brought this country to its knees, this country in no way resembles what it was.
Maybe the foreign dreamers can make a purse out this sow's shit.
Best uh luck.

Anonymous said...

Don:

"The one thing the man of property in the USA does not have to worry about is creeping socialism."

I think you've made an important point clear here. The man of property is not just the wealthiest 2%--he's also the middle-class (possibly out-of-work) backbone of a stable democracy who has a half-acre lot and a mortgage. And he is precisely the one who has to fear creeping socialism in the form of property tax hikes.

This 2% mentality (a dash of envy mixed with a justified outrage at double-standards for the elite) is what fueled the rise of the party nominally supporting the poor and the little guy but which actually screws the little guy at least as often as the party of the plutocrats.