Saturday, October 12, 2013

40 S&W One shot Stopping power? (VIDEO)

Fernando,

You need to check this out.  Dashcam video of an Oregon trooper shootout on the side of the road.

The guy was pulled over for whatever reason.  He then started firing at the trooper who fired back.  They guy was hit in the chest.  I believe there is a moment in the video where you can see his clothes move so you can tell it's the moment he was hit.  Didn't knock him back or anything.  He was able to keep firing, then get back in his car.  He was hit so severely that he died 1/2 a mile away.  Toxicology tests would determine if he had anything in his system that allowed him to take the hit.

This is a perfect example of not only choosing the right caliber but the right load and bullet type.  Would love to know what type of round the police officer used.  Whatever he had, it didn't have that much stopping power.


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20817653-dramatic-dash-cam-video-shows-man-in-fatigues-firing-on-oregon-officer?lite=




Thanks for your email. The pistol was a Glock in 40S&W, ammo used was some quality JHP with good stopping power reputation.  I’m more curious about exactly where he got shot in the torso. That tends to matter more than the caliber and brand of ammo.

 This video has several important lessons:

1)The suspect was hit only once in the chest with a 40 S&W (expect to miss in a gunfight… a lot) and even though he was later found dead he clearly was still capable of both shooting back and escaping.  Guns aren’t death rays people. Carry a powerful caliber that you can handle and shoot fast and accurately but fully expect to continue shooting until the threat is stopped. 

2)The officer did everything he was supposed to. He saw the strange behavior, the hands behind his back, but kept his cool until he saw that the suspect was armed. Wit and quick reaction saved the officers life, even though he did get shot he’s in no danger, probably thanks to body armor. Body Armor is a great thing to have when there's a chance of getting shot. Still something very much overlooked by most people.

3)Everything that can go wrong will most likely go wrong in a gunfight. The suspect accidentally engages the magazine release and drops the magazine of his weapon, something that may have saved the officers life. Think about that next time you consider changing your Glocks tiny mag release for an extended tacticool one you were told all high speed low drag operators use!


FerFAL

11 comments:

tweell said...

Location, location, location - even more true for shot placement than for a store. A .25 will kill in the right spot, and a .44 won't do much in the wrong spot. If you want stopping power at short range, carry a 12-gauge shotgun. Of course, you are conspicuous and have to hold the shotgun in order to use it quickly, making it hard to do anything requiring two hands. That is why we have pistols.

Don Williams said...

I don't know about this particular officer's car but Ford's website indicates that Kevlar body armor is put in the Crown Vic Police Interceptor door.

One thing that is interesting is that the officers' car is straight behind the suspect's car. In Virginia, I've seen state troopers who have pulled someone over with their cars turned back toward the road so at to angle the police car and put the engine block between the officer and the suspect's car.

That , however, reduces the field of view of the dash cam.

Several years ago I saw a police dash cam of a stop in which a middle-aged officer was attacked and punched by a young suspect. The officer wrestled the suspect off to the right out of view of the dash cam while politely saying "Sir , please stop attacking me."

At which point you could hear some heavy thuds and yelps. The police officer then came back into view pulling a suspect who now looked dazed, staggering, considerably worse for wear and docile. heh heh
My guess is a black jack.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Being up close in a gunfight, you better bring body armor and a change of pants.

Anonymous said...

One incident isn't enough to determine a round's stopping power. The entire concept of "stopping power" is a falsehood. Numerous battlefield examples exist where soldiers shot with large caliber high velocity rifle rounds have continued to fight and survive. If a rifle round can't reliably stop someone why would you expect a pistol round to do so?
Physics tells us that "knock back" or "knock down" is also a falsehood. A bullet powerful enough to knock down the target is powerful enough to knock down the shooter. Medicine tells us that gunshot wounds are rarely immediately incapacitating (note that I did not say "fatal") except in the case of a central nervous system hit. One study showed that over 80% of gunshot victims survive. As Fernando said, guns are not death rays. People acquire too much of their knowledge from TV and movies.

The round in the video could have been a squib. The perp could have been high as kite or it could simply have been adrenaline.

Expect the unexpected, keep shooting until the threat stops.

gaga said...

A doctor treating vets for brain trauma predicted that there will be a steady stream of this sort of thing over the coming decades as far more survive than previous wars.

Anonymous said...

IT is common, and should be expected, for handgun bullets to fail to stop bad guys. Yes, even .357s and .45s

The load used in this fight was a .40S&W 180gr Gold Dot, arguably one of the very best police service issue rounds ever made, but that doesn't make it a death ray.

Find a way to watch the Trooper Coates video and you'll see a tragic case where five torso hits from a .357mag fail to stop and large, angry bad guy.

Anonymous said...

As a police officer, I've seen people die from .22, .25, .380, etc. I've seen them live from .44, .45. It's all about shot placement.

Additionally, outside of a CNS hit, adrenaline will keep you functioning even as your body is dying. That's why police officers are trained to shoot to stop the threat and not to stop once they are hit. Once the threat is over, then you can stop.

Anonymous said...

I have never shot a human, but I have shot a lot of deer and I can tell you that if you heart or lung shoot a deer it will run dead on it's feet for a long way, but if you will break some bone with your shot, shoulder, spine, neck, etc, they just fall on the spot and die. I would stop shooting when I see some positive results or run out of shells.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if this footage is real. If so, it shows how fast crime can happen.

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/off-duty-cop-guns-down-motorcycle.html

Anonymous said...

I shot a 95# deer through the heart at close range with a 30-06. It still ran a good 50 yards through dense brush. Does this mean my "carry piece" needs to be larger than 30-06?

Anonymous said...

I think this underscores the importance of body armor. For some reason, otherwise intelligent "prepper" types always seem to get dismissive and evade this topic.

"If I need body armor, I'm not going to be there!" or "You need Level IV plates and they're too heavy!" The same people do think that six AR15's are a sound investment, however.

Seriously, take a look at the crime stats. Most people are shot with low-velocity, small caliber rounds at close range.

Why wouldn't you want to have a set of concealable body armor. Even if only to use for riskier activities, like going to the ATM or work visit to a bad area.