Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Detroit Police PD Gunfight

Hey Ferfal, 
Here is a video of the attack on a Detroit Police PD.
I dont know if you have seen it yet.

Hi Eddy, several good things to learn from this video ( in spite of it being a horrifc attack on police officers by a mad man) As always this is done to understand how shootings develope and point out a few things.

The men here did as well as they could given the surprise attack. They are well trained and did lots of things right.
1)      Go for cover. If this had been a rifle such as an AK, simply shooting through the bench would have killed the officers. In general, a desk is just concealment, not cover, but at the time it’s the only thing they had. For a shotgun shot though, other than the unlikely event of the bad guy using slugs, the desk at that angle will make ok cover. 

2)      Body armor saves lives. This video proves it yet again. If you have your gun, a good flashlight, body armor should be next in your list. I constantly get emails of people that bought armor because of my recommendations, couldn’t be happier about that. If you have a couple extra seconds during an attack or home invasion, spend them getting your armor on. 

3)      Notice the need to shoot repeatedly. The handgun is a poor stopper compared to rifles, and you must fully expect to keep shooting until the bad guy goes down. You don’t just shoot with a handgun, you start shooting, quickly pump as many rounds into your attacker as possible. 

4)      Commander Brian Davis executes a perfect single handed shooting technique while  moving backwards. Sometimes you see this while moving diagonally backwards as well. Diagonal backwards movement is usually better because it creates more distance, at the same time it requires horizontal realignment and you are less likely to get hit than moving straight backwards. What he did here is exactly what you train to do in shooting training. He clearly fell back to his training during this fight and that saved his life. It would have been even better if he had moved diagonally to that low door behind the counter where one of the first cops escpaed through. Seems that it would have been a better place to retreat to rather than get cornered. At least that’s what it seems based on the little information provided by this clip regarding the floor plan. Basically, when moving make sure you’re not cornering yourself in a dead end. 

5)      Notice the canted angle in his single hand shooting stance. Straight out of a textbook. This reduces the area available to shoot and also somewhat protects the center of mass area where your heart is. Better to catch a shotgun blast in your side in the ribs or shoulder than getting shot in the heart, right?

6)      Commander Davis gets shot in the hand. What would he have done folks if the fight continued? That’s right ladies and gentlemen, he would have shot with his other hand, as trained. This is why you must learn how to shoot, reload and load a round into the chamber single handedly with both hands. Not easy, but not training it doesn’t make it any easier.Notice: You need square rear sights  to make tihs operation easer. Some of those melted things may look cool and aerodinamic, but you dont want that when performing  single handed reloading techniques. 
7)      Throwing the trashcan. Even if its just a distraction throwing a cup, paperweight, keyboard or whatever it is you have may buy you a precious second or two. Heck, you might be lucky and hit him in the face causing some damage or buying even more time. This works within a context, the context in this case being a gunfight. Throwing your keys or dropping the wallet may get you that extra second you need to draw your gun.
 Please don’t follow stupid suggestions such as throwing stuff at an armed robber when your are unarmed and kept at gunpoint. You’ll just get shot.  Its just a distraction, and achieves nothing unless its part of a better plan. 

8)      Suppressive fire with a pistol. So much for all that one shot one kill BS. Leave that to snipers. Where was Commander Davis and partner shooting those first shots to? The general direction. The other cop just puts the gun over the desk and shoots a bunch of rounds. The only shots that count are hits ? Well no, if the shots are giving the bad guy something to think about, they are getting the job done too. If the bad guy isn’t an insane freak like in this case, a likely outcome would have been to run away after the failed attack when he sees the officers shooting in his direction. Suppressive fire buys you time, gives the bad guy things to think about (like oh, I just might get shot) It turns the tide to your favor in a way and may avoid the bad guy rushing in. In this case it didn’t work very well, again dealing with an insane man here, but it was worth a shot and I’m sure it bought them some time none the less.

9)      Between the suppress rounds fired and the amount of shots needed to stop this mad man, a lone attacker!, how would you feel having just 6 or 7 shots instead o 16 or more?

Take care folks.



Anonymous said...


Watch this version it is split screen. The left screen show the perp....
watch at 25 to 30 seconds how he moves laterally his footwork is professional.... where are dirt bags getting skills like that? THEY TRAIN TOO some join the military specifically to take training back to their gangs


Anonymous said...

Just when I was convincing myself to get a snub for conceal carry...

Gallo @ GTA forum

Joseph said...


On the part about suppressive fire-folks, think here. There is a REASON trained troops have rifles that carry 30 round magazines. Most shooting is done to interfere with the other guys shooting. The "one shot one kill" idea is great when you have a .308 precision rifle from 200 meters with great concealment. When you are 10 yards away, though, it will likely be a different story.

Double Tapper said...

That was intense. Scary intense. I hope by the grace of God I am never in that situation.

Anonymous said...

What side arm was Commander David using? What caliber, capacity?

Anonymous said...

There's a gentleman that just moved his family up to my area from Detroit. He stated that the entire area is basically an undeclared civil war between rival gangs & the rest of the world, including police (no surprise there). He said that many times he saw bodies hanging from bridges and overpasses, & of course these murders went unreported. Thanks for posting the video, this will motivate myself & my family to train with weak hand, set up innocent-looking cover in our house ("Home Improvements"), renew my commitment to think The Unthinkable.
Eric in Michigan

Anonymous said...

The desk provides no cover, unless he was using birdshot. The metal those desks are made of are very thin steel and would have offered no protection. If the guy wasn't a mad man he could have pumped round after round on the desk and gotten lucky.

Going hand to hand, against a guy with a far superior weapon than you and that you outnumber is probably not a bad idea. No way I'm fighting a guy with shotgun or rifle, with a pistol, in a no escape, minimal movement, cramped place like that.

Anonymous said...

wow. that article about gangs getting military training really sucks. how are civilians supposed to protect themselves against gang members with military training?

ferfal - any thoughts?


P.P. Mazzini said...

Ferfal, you're scaring us lately with all of these horror studies!

First, keep in mind that dirt bags wear armour also. If you only have a handgun, the only thing that will work is a head shot. Not the easiest thing to pull off in the type of chaos depicted in this video.

Second, if you are wearing armour, keep in mind that the biggest "chink" in that armour is the arm holes. Keep yourself squared up against the threat to minimize your exposure in this regard. Once again, nice to know, not so easy to implement in the heat of the moment.

Finally, I think that this "gang members getting military training" thing is a bit of a red herring. Basic military training isn't good for much other than very basic marksmanship. The really useful stuff comes at advanced levels, such as Special Forces, Ranger School, or even advanced infantry training. To get to that level requires some serious gut checks that the average gang slob has no hope of passing. Basically, anyone smart and disciplined enough to get decent training in the military probably isn't going to have much interest in street gangs afterward, IMHO.


Anonymous said...

Hey Ferfal, considering the current and coming shitestorms in the middle east. Perhaps a good idea would be to get your book translated into Arabic, I'm sure you have readers who would be willing to do it for free. Egypt pretty much has shutdown and people are hurting. And there will be a great demand for the type of information you provide in your book in the middle east.

Pitt said...


Its funny that you should say that gangbangers wouldn't have the guts to get advanced training. You do you think is going to be tougher, a kid who has been living, working, dealing drugs on the street since he was 11 and enlists in the army at 18 because the leader of his gang tells him to or the 18yo middle class kid that has spent his childhood playing Xbox or WOW and won't even go outside if the temperature is over 80 degrees. Surviving in the ghetto (black or white) doesn't make you soft.

Anonymous said...

"Basic" marksmanship training in the military often involves setting up and breaking through ambushes, learning how to "slice the pie," shooting & moving, shooting from cover, and yes marksmanship skills out to 300(5or600 for USMC I think).

They are the exception rather than the rule, but military trained gangbangers are a serious problem. Let's hope they won't pass the security check to get to the more advanced schools... but that should have happened during basic too. And while basic isn't Ranger School, it is pretty tough and you need to be fairly fit if you are to stay alive in the 'hood.


Anonymous said...

Excellent points. a

Anonymous said...

"Notice the canted angle in his single hand shooting stance. Straight out of a textbook. This reduces the area available to shoot and also somewhat protects the center of mass area where your heart is. Better to catch a shotgun blast in your side in the ribs or shoulder than getting shot in the heart, right?"

In the Marines Corps you are taught to shoot facing your enemy, not to the side. This is a fairly uncomfortable stance but the reasoning behind it is that if you are hit, you have a large sapi plate to protect your vital organs. A lot of Marines were dying from rounds entering on the side and passing through their chest cavity. They've added side sapi plates since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but they're small. I would rather have the large front plate in front of me.