Tuesday, February 15, 2011

Illegal Gun Confiscation

During the Egypt Post there’s been comments on how a gun confiscation may affect people.
This is something covered in a more advanced stage of preparedness but its relevant none the less.
Is it realistic to go around burying guns and survival caches in the back yard? What would the neighbors and family think? Try telling them. “Hey mom, I’m burying some guns in the backyard in case he government comes after them". 9 out of 10, your relative/friend will think you are nuts...
Then again why would you care what others have to say? Folks, this is the type of preparedness that must be kept private. We discuss it here with like minded people but the rest simply wont understand, for the same reason they are not already here reading about preparedness to begin with. Its not their thing, its uncomfortable for them to even consider these possibilities so they avoid it. Mention these thoughts and they’ll think you are nuts, but are you?

The Second Amendment, that wonderful declaration that I think is significantly responsible for making USA what it is, it matters very little when SWAT is at your door asking for your guns. “Oh, Lord, I’m an outstanding citizen. God fearing, go to church every Sunday, sell pie for charity, this would never happen to me”.
Remember what I said several times in the past. SHTF isn’t supposed to be fair. Its not a matter of IF it will happen, its a matter of WHEN will it happen again.
You only have to look back to Katrina to see how law abiding citizens, even nice elder ladies got brutally attacked by cops and stripped of their right to defend themselves when they needed it the most. I know cops and military personnel that swear they would never follow such orders. Don’t worry, thousands of others will. Just think about that for a second. Katrina hits, your preparedness, your guns and money invested in training are all about to pay for themselves. That situation you hoped never to face but still prepared for if happening. But then cops and the national guard comes to your door and demands your guns while keeping you at gun point. Illegal? Unconstitutional? Sure, but they do it anyways. You either comply or what, die shot full of holes in front of your family? maybe get them killed too? Makes no sense. If you already have your basic preparedness covered, then there’s a thing or two you might want to consider.

  What to do?: The Survival Cache

The first step is acquiring guns that, if kept out of sight, wont be showing up in any list the goons showing at your door may have. In most states (check if it applies to yours) this is perfectly legal as a private sale, no FFL needed. It’s one person selling his property to another. This could take place at gun shows, paper adds, among friends, gun clubs, etc.
Some people recommend getting antique guns that dont require a FFL instead. This isn’t very smart given the much cheaper private sale alternative that can be done with modern firearms. People suggesting antiques to avoid gun grabs yet choosing not to mention this mostly because they get a cut on the antique gun sales, that’s just unscrupulous.
I would get a couple handguns and a long arm. Something in the lines of a couple Hi Powers, CZ 75, or some cheap police “trade-in" Glocks. Make sure to test these guns well, if you’re digging them out then you’ll be really needing them. For long arms I’d get an SKS or better yet an AK47, avoid the shotgun for this type of scenario.
A PVC pipe makes a good burial vault. Remember to use lots of cement and grease up the piece with the screw that will be cemented to the end that can be opened. Wrap the tube in plastic such as trash bags. A piece of rope like in Mossberg’s “just in case” kit will make he tube easy to carry.
Pelican cases are a bit on the expensive end but are terrific cases and some are waterproof, built like a tank.
You might want to bury other objects with your guns, specially ammo. Check this post for more ideas on what to bury along with your gun.
Take care everyone,



Anonymous said...

When it comes to survival caching I admit I am a neophyte. I've never buried anything that I might need later, because where I am at for nearly 6 months of the year the ground is frozen as hard as concrete.
If it was an illegal item it seems to me it would be best not bury it on your own property.

In a matter that may or may not be related, growing up on my parent's homestead farm in the boonies we had a hand-dug well which no longer had water in it, about 1 or 1.5 meters across, filled with old glass bottles. It has occurred to me that the previous owner may have stashed something there, with the glass bottles providing drainage, thus preventing it from freezing up. Also it would be noisy trying to remove the bottles, as they would possibly slip further down as a person made progress, not to mention time-consuming & tedious trying to set down all those hundreds of glass bottles somewhere, quietly, while trying to make timely progress. I don't think 1 person could do it by themselves in 1 night. The place of this well is in easy hearing (or gunshot range) of 5 locations from the house.
Eric in Michigan

Guncrazy said...

Quick tip: A Glock 19 (or 23) will fit in a 4" PVC pipe, if you remove the slide. A 2-foot length of pipe will hold the gun, several magazines (including the 33-round 9mm magazines), a couple hundred rounds of ammo, a cleaning kit, and still have room for a few other things like cash, silver coins, freeze-dried rations, or other items you might think you'd need, if you ever had to dig it up.

Anonymous said...

How does the person who sales their gun handle the situation when the authorities come for their weapon? What do you expect the response would be if you said that you sold your guns for the money. Maybe have a few available for confiscation to keep them happy.

Anonymous said...

Exercise caution when you buy a gun at a private sale from a stranger. How do you know that gun has not been used in a crime? If the police find a gun in your possession and its ballistics match an unsolved murder, you'll have some explaining to do.

Anonymous said...

In response to the comment about private sales of firearms having been used in a crime, I would like to point out that there is no guarantee that *any* used firearm has never been used in a crime. In the US, whenever a gun is transferred at an FFL, the dealer will check to make sure the weapon has not been reported stolen or used in a crime. However, if the weapon has not been reported stolen or used in a crime, there is nothing preventing the dealer from reselling it.

In fact, I have read about just such an occurrence in Pennsylvania where an individual had bought a used pistol from a reputable dealer. The state police later told the dealer that the weapon had been reported stolen, and the dealer then had to recover it from the individual he had sold it to (presumably refunding the buyer's money). The moral of the story? Just because you buy a used gun from a licensed dealer does not automatically make it clean.

I would not feel uncomfortable buying a used firearm in a private sale from a reputable individual. In fact, I plan on doing so sometime in the near future.


Don Williams said...

1) The PVC pipe with the screw on end will NOT keep water out. Water seeps in around the threads, especially if temperature changes causes expansion and shrinkage.

You need to cement both ends and then cut one end off when you need to reopen it. Although the plastic bag may help as would burying the pipe in well drained soil vice waterlogged clay soil. I reco people do a six month dry ..er..wet run if they don't believe me.

2) I believe private handgun sales in the USA --vice long gun sales -- now require a background check to be done via a gun dealer. Although the "REALLY private" gun sales in the poorer sections of our cities may not have gotten the word.

Anonymous said...

In response to Don about private sales of handguns ... it varies from state to state. Some states allow it, some don't. Where I live, handgun sales between two private parties are perfectly legal. Long guns (i.e., rifles & shotguns) generally can be bought and sold within a state with no background checks. When you cross state lines, FFL dealers must be involved. That said, check your local laws first before engaging in any transactions involving firearms.


Anonymous said...

All you really need are "receipts" of some kind showing a "sale" of whatever firearms that might be tied to you in a database.

Just sayin'.

Anonymous said...

Years ago sometime during the first couple years of the Clinton Administration, I heard about someone who had developed a new hobby of going up into the National Forests along logging roads with a metal detector to search for buried firearms caches. This "hobbyist" would dig up the guns and take them to the local Sheriff, reporting that he had "found" them. A public notice would be put in the local paper, and if the guns were not claimed within thirty days (they never were claimed), this "hobbyist" would recover the firearms get legal title to them.

There are a couple of lessons to take away from this tale. First, some people are real sleazebags. Second, be creative in choosing your cache site. While nothing is absolute, there is no reason to make it easy for some opportunistic sleazebag "hobbyist."

Anonymous said...

Transfers of handguns between individuals is a matter of state law, not federal. Here in Indiana these transfers do indeed require a background check through a FFL holder. Check the laws in your locations as not all states require this.

Anonymous said...

In New York state, there is the Public Health Legal Manual(just released), which is aimed at how the legal community (judges, law enforcement, etc) can take over everything under current law.
Judges, courts, law enforcement, etc can decide to take your house, property, medicine, etc (including guns). And this is under current law. They can do this under a significant medical epidemic, insurrection, terror attack, etc. Even the ACLU has qualms about this. Katrina type seizures will happen again . .

Time to bury stuff.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 2/15/11 at 9:07am - That's a good point about following the "trail" of a gun.

It may slow down someone tracking down a gun but I highly doubt the private seller is going to remain silent on who he sold it to when confronted by heavy law enforcement or military.

Similarly, with regards to a cache, even if you live in the most generous city/state with regards to gun purchases (no licenses or registrations) there is still the Federal form that has to be filled out presuming you buy from a dealer.

I hate using fiction as an example but if you ever saw the movie "Red Dawn" one of the first things the Russians did when they invaded the town was break into the local gun shot, get the Federal forms, confiscate all the listed guns and arrest the owners.

My point is that if you have Federal forms for 4 guns but can only produce 2 or 3 when they come to your door what are you going to say?

Anonymous said...

Federal law does not require a background check for private sales. That's the "gun show loophole" which we hear so much about. The goal of closing that "loophole" is to require checks (registration if you don't believe they destroy the records) for all handgun transfers.

Some states may have more stringent rules about transfers. Private transfers must be between residents of the same state - interstate transfers (even if both are physically in the same place in one state) must go through an FFL (Federal Firearms Licensed dealer) - and hence through the background check.

Anonymous said...

why do we continue to say 'they might..' when katrina proved that THEY WILL....! jesus christ people wake up and get prepared and stop 'hoping' that some miracle will happen and change the course we are on.......

but...if we have nationwide martial law...no way the gov can go to every house.

also the police departments auction off 'crime guns' all the time so hang on to the proof of sale if you buy it from a private buyer.

Anonymous said...

a better solution to burying (in the ground) is to have a safe built between the studs in the wall and then just sheetrock over the whole thing. it will also keep you from 'borrowing' from your bug out kit...!

Ivan said...

it's advisable to bury nuts and bolts in a large grid in and around the cache site. This will make someone using a metal detctor go crazy when they keep digging up junk.

Anonymous said...

"it's advisable to bury nuts and bolts in a large grid in and around the cache site. This will make someone using a metal detector go crazy when they keep digging up junk."

Second the thought. There are perhaps better ways, but if the firearm has no wood, and can fit into PVC or ABS pipe, the easy, quick and bullet proof method is simply to stuff it in and fill the tube with new automotive oil. Glue both ends. Common in Asia, if it will not fit into a pipe, use inter-tube, pack with grease, and tie off the ends.

Given current law is still in place during SHTF, if one is caught with an antique, you might be arrested, but the fact that it is not considered a firearm. The court would see that it is an antique and one might avoid serious jail time. In a slow decline, antiques might be the last to be outlawed allowing one to legally own and practice with a fire arm longer than otherwise. An antique need not be expensive and can be modified to be as functional as a modern firearm. With the spare barrels, my 1893 Turkish Mauser will shoot 8mm, 6.5x55 and .308. In new wood and with a scope, it would appear and shoot like modern rifle and yet still be an 'antique'. At the time, it cost $249.00. Owning an antique rifle should be considered. It is a comforting option.