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I want the opinion of you guys for this awesome idea I have.
A conceal carry gun. Wait, I know the market is saturated but bear with me for a second.
It’s a tiny auto, chambered in .32 (there will be an even smaller version in .25 ACP at some point, best of all it only has a 4+1 capacity. Wait guys! Don’t leave, there’s more!
It’s really small. Like, it fits in your shirt’s front pocket. You can get a pretty nice one finger grip on it. Truth is you can’t hit the broad side of a Football stadium, let alone a barn.
Spare magazines will be impossible to get and cost as much as five Glock magazines if you ever find one. Reliable? No, it’s not that kind of gun. This will be marketed as a compact gun, little capacity and the type of gun you hopefully will never need to actually use, but at least you have one with you.
The comfortable mouse gun?
If the above writing sounds ridiculous then you haven’t kept up with the latest tendency. No power, accuracy, ease of shooting or firepower, what people seem to need is a gun that is so small they can just drop it in a pocket and forget about it.
It seems that lately all you see is compacts and subcompacts. The subcompact Glocks are bad enough with theitr two finger grip, but there’s even worse numbers out there, single stacks chambered for 380 ACP or (I can’t even type it 32 ACP. Small, with little capacity and worst of all, guns which you wont be as accurate with. If you go to shooting classes you will seldom see any of these mini guns or subcompacts. Its beyond my understanding when you see these folks take classes with their Glocks 17 or 19, only to put it away and drop a Keltec 380ACP in their pocket. I don’t know about these folks, but I sure never wished for less gun, less capacity or a less powerful rounds when I needed a gun.
It seems that today its all about carrying something that is comfortable. Comfortable? It’s supposed to be used for life or death situations, maybe with your family involved in it. Such reasoning makes as much sense as getting a subcompact fire extinguisher (because you don’t want your family caught in one of those large, lethal house fires) or having a couple bandaids instead of a real first aid kit (God forbid you ever have to deal with serious wounds!)
I don’t know guys. If you are lucky enough to live in a country where its legal for you to carry a firearm, you owe it to the rest of the world to carry a real one, and if its not as comfortable as your favorite set of panties, whenever you feel its more than confortable weight on your side simply remember how lucky you are an say a little prayer for your Founding Fathers.
Take care folks and have a nice weekend.
Join the forum discussion on this post
A conceal carry gun. Wait, I know the market is saturated but bear with me for a second.
It’s a tiny auto, chambered in .32 (there will be an even smaller version in .25 ACP at some point, best of all it only has a 4+1 capacity. Wait guys! Don’t leave, there’s more!
It’s really small. Like, it fits in your shirt’s front pocket. You can get a pretty nice one finger grip on it. Truth is you can’t hit the broad side of a Football stadium, let alone a barn.
Spare magazines will be impossible to get and cost as much as five Glock magazines if you ever find one. Reliable? No, it’s not that kind of gun. This will be marketed as a compact gun, little capacity and the type of gun you hopefully will never need to actually use, but at least you have one with you.
The comfortable mouse gun?
If the above writing sounds ridiculous then you haven’t kept up with the latest tendency. No power, accuracy, ease of shooting or firepower, what people seem to need is a gun that is so small they can just drop it in a pocket and forget about it.
It seems that lately all you see is compacts and subcompacts. The subcompact Glocks are bad enough with theitr two finger grip, but there’s even worse numbers out there, single stacks chambered for 380 ACP or (I can’t even type it 32 ACP. Small, with little capacity and worst of all, guns which you wont be as accurate with. If you go to shooting classes you will seldom see any of these mini guns or subcompacts. Its beyond my understanding when you see these folks take classes with their Glocks 17 or 19, only to put it away and drop a Keltec 380ACP in their pocket. I don’t know about these folks, but I sure never wished for less gun, less capacity or a less powerful rounds when I needed a gun.
It seems that today its all about carrying something that is comfortable. Comfortable? It’s supposed to be used for life or death situations, maybe with your family involved in it. Such reasoning makes as much sense as getting a subcompact fire extinguisher (because you don’t want your family caught in one of those large, lethal house fires) or having a couple bandaids instead of a real first aid kit (God forbid you ever have to deal with serious wounds!)
I don’t know guys. If you are lucky enough to live in a country where its legal for you to carry a firearm, you owe it to the rest of the world to carry a real one, and if its not as comfortable as your favorite set of panties, whenever you feel its more than confortable weight on your side simply remember how lucky you are an say a little prayer for your Founding Fathers.
Take care folks and have a nice weekend.
Join the forum discussion on this postFerFAL
20 comments:
1) I used to sneer at James Bond's Walther PPK --but it turns out that they actually were used by the CIA during the Cold War. Easy to silence, easy to conceal and a brain shot with a 380 is just as good as one with a 45 ACP.
2) About 15? years ago, a Maryland state trooper here in the USA was killed by a 25 acp.
Crook was pulled over on a traffic stop, it was raining and crook helpfully got of his car and went back to give the nice officer his license. Obviously harmless because he was wearing no shirt --i.e, was barechested.
Except that when the crook reached the officer, he pulled a 25 acp out of his armpit --where it had been held by a left arm clasped to the side -- and the crook shot the policeman in the temple at about 2 feet range. Because the crook couldn't let the officer run a background check on his license.
Not my choice of gun --but i take them seriously. At 6 feet, a small gun concealed in the hand beats a big gun in the holster.
So....if you don't like pocket guns, can I have that Colt 1903? :)
It took me a long time to find a weapon/holster rig that I could carry 100% of the time. part of my requirements was that a 9 mm was the smallest caliber I was willing to go with. I settled with a glock 33 in 357 sig. I was worried initially because it's a compact and my pinky doesn't fit. But as it turns out - I really don't need my pinky finger - I shoot just as well with it as I do my Springfield XD 357sig with a 5 inch barrel. If I could carry the Springfield all of the time I would (more bullets), but I can't.
I do have one of those 22Mag mouse gun revolvers - I can't hit anything with that - and it takes forever to reload.
Depends,I have in the past carried very concealable pistols more as a last line of defense or being in a severe NPE. Since the small 9mms have come on the market the is not much use for a .380 or a 9X18. But I carried a S&W M-39 that was de-horned in conceled carry for years without problems. I think all of us have toyed with small guns over time until a sweaty hand drops one or some other embarassing thing happens(a Baby Browning in a crotch holster)and we decide to go back to something big enough to keep track of.
Actually those little guns do serve a purpose. They conceal far more easily than a full-size weapon. With some of the ammunition choices available they will certainly deter a goblin for the time necessary to depart the area.
Not saying they are the end-all be-all, just saying they have their place.
Respectfully... you've missed the point of pocket carry. I carry a "pocket gun" ALL THE TIME... even at home. And when I step outside... I carry it and a Glock (the latter is primary & PG is a bug).
In the same way that somebody has a multitool on his or her person but still has a tool box with "full-size" tools and reaches for that first when doing a "big job".
They do have a purpose. Like having a fixed blade knife AND a folder and a small "neck-knife" like the little TDI LDK.
A prudent person would consider carrying ALL THREE. And NOT make choices of carying one over the other.
Anonymous 6:14am - I carry my Glock 33 all the time - even at home, along with a one handed folder. I think my biggest threat risk right now is home invasion - so that's why I carry - and my pocket 22Mag isn't good enough for home - it's too hard to aim, too hard to reload. And if there is more than one bad guy, the pocket gun is almost useless. Glock 33, 357 sig, IWB 100% of the time, with spare mags close - something that can throw a big chunk of lead 7-10 yards accurately. Pocket gun doesn't do it for me.
There are plenty of pistols on the market today that are both easily concealable and decently potent. I don't think 7 rounds of 9x19+P HP is very weak. Now, I do agree that you should not carry a gun you are not accurate with. Subcompacts will take more work to become and stay proficient than a compact or full-sized version. That said, the 9mm in your pocket beats the 44Mag in the safe!
I can throw my .22 or .25 Beretta in the front pocket of my cargo shorts. Will it stop Tarzan? No, but it will do a better job than the G30 I don't want to conceal in 90 degrees so leave home. Intermediate, it's the .380 PPK/s.
Where I live, the odds are much greater of an AD or a citizen seeing the wind blow up a shirt and calling a cop because "he has a gun." I'm legal but a big hassle in this state.
S
Fer Fal, Here are a few thoughts in defense of a small gun like a Keltec .380
As someone else said, a small handgun is something that you can carry with you every day. There are many days where you are just going to work and back and the (already low) odds that you'll need a handgun are even lower.
The clothes someone wears in corporate (pre-collapse) America do not always lend themselves to concealing a full-sized glock. It is also not comfortable while sitting for 8 hours in a cubicle.
If someone is going to be out after dark or in potentially dangerous situation, then they absolutely should carry the largest gun they can.
This same rationale could be applied to Body Armor. I know that you only wear it when you are going someplace dangerous, not all day, every day.
Small handguns have their place, especially considering that our economy hasn't collapsed yet, and that most crimes that are prevented by having a gun are done so without having to pull the trigger.
Just my 2 cents
-Scott in TN
I think the point is......don't start CC with a Glock 17 if in a month you get so sick of it you leave it on the counter.
Pick the best gun for you....IE, the most effective tool you are willing to carry EVERY DAY.
If you want to parade around in a BPV and carry three full sized weapons, fine with me.....but that is not reality.
I guarantee if you do that eventually you will get sick of it and start leaving part of your set up at home.
I carry a G26, which is a small gun, holds 13 9mm, and I have actually hit a paint can at 100 yds with it.....and I forget I am wearing it...it has become part of me....
-Junker
Let us face it. Most people are lazy.
And that means the choice may not be "better than" but instead "mini or nothing".
And then there is region.
In most parts of america there is a way to carry legaly.
In most parts of europe on the other hand - good luck with that. Such a small pocket gun might go by unnoticed for a long time. And if you realy need it - it might be better to have legal issues than funeral issues.
I am very positive towards these mini-guns, even though everything FerFal wrote is 100% true.
I tend to agree with FerFal. Either you are going to have to deal with a problem or not. Playing the odds and using a small gun when you think a larger size isn't needed doesn't strike me as well thought out.
The Congresswoman who was shot - - her venue struck me as really safe, just a political tour, so assuming that one place is safer than the other may be wrong.
Train with what you will fight with and fight with what you are training with. I have one handgun with a duplicate backup at home in case of repairs needed, etc. Have needed no repairs and don't anticipate any.
Minimize the number of weapons. Rather your opponent have the small handgun and you have a minimum of 9mm with a decent size magazine(s).
I read once where the FBI stated that police in gunfights (handguns), hit who they were shooting at about 18% of the time, others have disputed this and think it's closer to 12%.
With a 6 or 7 round magazine, 1 in 5 is not really comfortable for me, especially since with a small gun I don't shoot as well as with a "normal" size handgun.
I don't train alot but am a decent shot, under pressure my accuracy will drop dramatically.
I'll stick with the larger handgun.
FerFal,
Great video. I personally believe the apex of "pocket" gun development occured with the M1903 Browning and Walther PPK. Everything else has been a race to the bottom. I have a Bersa .380, that is very similar to the PPK in size and it carries in a pocket very well. I just get pants with bigger pockets and jackets of tough material so it doesn't print in the coat pockets. Mostly it is carried in a belt holster that pulls it tight into the side and doesn't print under a t-shirt (loose fit, I am not body hugging shirt sized).
When I carry a full sized pistol it is a full sized, all steel 9mm service pistol, or k-frame revolver. Either can be concealed with some thought to garments and holsters.
ANY gun is 100% better than none, and if that 3AT or P32 is all you have, its of great comfort. The hide-out is very rarely ever needed, but you still have to carry it regardless (criminals don't make appointments, unfortunately) so bring on the mouse gun. A criminal may snicker at the sight of it - or maybe just run like hell the other way, getting shot sux, even with just a mouse gun.
"If someone is going to be out after dark or in potentially dangerous situation, then they absolutely should carry the largest gun they can."
My guess is that if any of us were to travel over to the sandbox for business we would find a way to pack a full size handgun. Maybe even an SBR/PDW. But crime in some US cities is very nearly as bad, sometimes worse. (http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/crime-in-iraq-vs-washington-dc/)
In my little town of two thousand we just had a homicide/decapitation.
I carry a Glock 23 all day, every day, even around the house. When I go out I take a spare mag. I also carry a light and lock blade at nearly all times.
Ferfal is right; man up and leave your comfort behind. TEOTWAWKI happened YEARS ago. Take the steps to protect your loved ones.
Oh, and if your state allows it, open carry does make things a lot more comfortable in the summer.
Ferfal is just being realistic. Noone will be able to credibly fight and win against 3 and more opponents, armed possibly with guns too with a pocket pistol. In that respect anything below 16 9mm rounds like the Glock 19 is underpowered. A Glock 26 can use the larger magazines with grip extensions though.
The pocket pistols are really ambush and assassination guns. These guns due to their low magazine capacity force you to take head shots at very close distances, increasing the chances of lethal personal injury. Or more realistically, are scare devices that were never meant for serious life and death struggles in the first place.
Sure 30-40 years ago people had the excuses of ignorance and technology limitations, (The Browning HP being the only hicap pistol available) but nowadays there none.
Concealment excuses are really just an excuse to wear certain type of clothing. As well as lack of patience and care in finding the right holster.
I have had the same problem of wanting a smaller pistol for easier concealment, but was unwilling to step down in caliber, since I also believe it is almost pointless to carry something so underpowered. However, as a woman, it is extremely difficult to conceal carry on my body without it showing, even the smaller hand guns, and carrying in a purse is far too risky. A Glock (any Glock) is impossible for me to conceal. It is just too big, and women's clothing is just too thin, clingy, and the pockets are always ridiculously small.
I may have found a good compromise however. I recently purchased a Ruger LC9, which is not as small as the LCP but still quite small, and yet is 9 mm. It also fits my female hand very well, especially with the extended floorplate on the grip. Shooting has been MORE accurate than with my Glock 19. So far its only drawback is the small magazine (7+1)load, so I bought two more magazines to carry as well.
As one poster pointed out during his war story awhile back, "surprise can be more important than fire power". I gave that real life example some thought and had to agree. Even a tiny .25acp, folded in handkerchief stuffed in your front pocket would do the trick. As it appeared you were about to blow your nose, you could seriously change the game. As the threat level changes, so should ones tactics. a
Generally speaking I agree with all that was said except for one area. Try running with a big heavy gun! Trust me , you can't. As an avid runner, a big klunky gun is not an option, and if it wasnt for the likes of my little pocket guns, I have a Ruger LCP and a Keltec P3AT, I would be going out unarmed. Just something to think about.
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