Wednesday, October 7, 2009

Magazine capacity: No one ever wished for LESS ammo.

Anonymous said...
There's nothing wrong with a snub nose .38

Those who believe thay'll be engaging targets with 15 rounds at 25 yards are living in dreamland. Even if you win the fight, you'll lose in the court room trying to argue that lethal force was justified at that distance.

Less than 15 feet and 3 rounds is HIGHLY more likely. And anyone who can't center-mass at 15 feet might as well turn that gun on hiself and stop wasting everyone else's time.

What's called for is a simple, reliable, accessible hand gun. My 686+ holds seven. I only need two.


Guys, about magazine capacity: EXPECT TO MISS MORE THAN YOU HIT, rather than the other way around. Train to be as accurate as you can but don’t feel overconfident about your capacity to make brain or heart shots. Not likely at all.
You never know how much rounds you’ll need, and I often hear about 50 or 100 rounds being fired in gunfights around here.
What has changed in the last couple of decades is that criminals are better organized, even small time ones they associate and work in larger groups, and the kind of weaponry used. 2 or 3 guys armed with 15+1 capacity guns and you only armed with 6 shots kind of sucks. Hits count? Sure, but there’s other things to take into account as well. The ability to keep shooting for a longer time and not running out of ammo is one of them.

Also, 5 shots fired killing no one and sending attackers away? Rounds well spent in my book and so much for only hits count.
AND I wont have to PAY for any dead guy (lawyers, lawsuits, etc)
Suppressive fire is a fact, no one walks towards rounds being fired.



theotherryan said...

I don't think a snubby .38 is a bad gun. However the Glock 19 is essentially the same size and carries comparably but has 3x the bullets and is far more accurate.

Anonymous said...

Not to mention reloading!!!


Bones said...

There's a saying that the average encounter involves 3 rounds at 3 yards in 3 seconds. For that, a nice snubby is fine, especially since you don't have to worry about misfires & "tap,rack,bang". Just point and squeeze the trigger. 9 out of 10 times merely having a gun is enough to defuse a confrontation. For those other times, your best bet is to run like hell if you can. Winning means surviving, not dropping the bad guy.

Of course, preparedness means being ready for the unusual. It also means being able to adapt to the situation at hand. Perhaps the gun you have in your hand was your assailants before you managed to grab it? Better to be familiar with the operation of a wide variety of firearms, so you know how to fire it or safe it as the situation demands. HTH and knife fighting training rounds out your skills.

Of course we all agree that the best firearm is the one you are most comfortable with and will therefore carry.

What's that FerFal? A glass of kool aid? Why certainly, thank you! Now...what was I saying...something about...glocks for everyone...;p

KeithC said...

I don't think America has (yet) seen the kind of criminals that you've encountered and this has colored our preconceptions and expectations. For us, we hear about drive-by shootings (lots of ammo expended at you but from a moving assailant who then generally keeps going), face-to-face robberies by one or two people (back to pulling a gun likely being enough but, worse case, 2-5 rounds fired at very close ranges before they either flee or are hors de combat) and full-scale Katrina/LA riot chaos (which leads to all sorts of weird, Mad Max "tacti-cool" fantasies but usually ends up with holing up somewhere with coworkers and/or neighbors, brandishing a rifle you pray to God you don't have to use).

The idea of a protracted fight - not shooting but back-&-forth *fight* - during a non-riot situation is just not something ingrained in our national psyche. We worry about post-attack arrests, lawsuits and whether or not we appear "racist" instead of sight picture-trigger press-keep moving-scan for his friends while loading a fresh mag.

You can always elect to not fire all the rounds in a large-capacity magazine. You cannot magically wish more rounds into existence when a smaller one runs dry.

Don Williams said...

Some people may think they will stand in place and calmly shoot like at the range. Which might work if you only have two enemies and you do a preemptive attack before they get their guns lined up.

But there is something to be said for firing rapid fire on the run for cover. Which takes a decent sized magazine.

If you stand still, it's easier for one of the bad guys to put a bullet through your head.

Don Williams said...

Oh -- and the reason to run for cover is that you are not sure you have spotted all of the bad guys. Being sniped from the side by an unseen foe is a constant danger.

Some people train that you should immediately do a 360 degree scan after shooting to spot any other assailants -- but I suspect doing that under stress doesn't come naturally.

Pitt said...

In the old days (you know pre- Miami Vice and the high cap 9mm) when everyone carried a wheelgun, 5 or 6 rds in your gun was being well armed. Most autoloaders of that day and age were single stack guns holding 6-9rds. These days, the rules have changed and while 3seconds, 3yds, 3rds still holds true for most shooting, we have a lot more that involve a 15rd mag dump. More bullets never hurt.

subby said...

People who extol snubbies/1911's over automatics like the glock are nuts simple as that. And probably over 40 years old. They are nothing but stubborn fools people should be honest about it. Those who are open to knew ideas on the other hand are carrying auto pistols which are smaller, lighter, can be reloaded under combat conditions and hold more than 30% more bullets than a snubby. They should be called out for what they are there's just no excuse anymore.

This is even more true with Ferfals experience. A snubby may good enough to scare people away while your running your ass off, but thats it. If thats your strategy then by all means get a snubby.

Don Williams said...

I disagree with subby re 1911s. The US Marine Corps does not screw around -- and THEY are discarding the 9mm Baretta 92 in favor of going back to the 1911 45.

Because they found in Iraq that if some guy with an AK47 pops up at you inside a building, you want to put him down fast. Punching big holes in him does that faster than small holes.

Ah, but Jedi Knights PLACE their shots?

Yeah, right.

Don Williams said...

1) A survey of soldiers returning from Iraq found a lot of them unhappy with the stopping power of the 9mm FMJ:

2) The US military has been trying to get Congress to fund a new handgun for some time. Guess what they want the caliber to be?

3) Again, if I'm was going up against people likely to be wearing body armor, I would like to have Ferfal's 357 Glock. But if most of the likely assailants were like to NOT be wearing body armor, then I would prefer the 45 ACP in 1911.

4) Fast magazine swaps make up for having a 7 rd mag vice a 15 rd mag.

Anonymous said...

What's with the over 40 comment? I'm 71 years old and carry a glock 26 with a 17 round spare mag. Weapon choice is a very personal decision, and personally I hope I never have to face someone with a snubby or any other type of gun.

Anonymous said...

Many shooters believe they can get on target quickly. Punching holes in paper from a stationary position at the range reinforces this belief.

These same shooters can't hit a damn thing in a quick manner at IDPA or IPSEC pistol matches.These matches are timed and targets vary from size and location. The stress of shooting a timed event is enough to show you how bad of a shot your really are. I know. I was one of them.

Ferfal mentions taking combat type pistol classes which is sound advise. I would also suggest joining IDPA, IPSEC, two gun and three gun matches at your local range.

Don't be shy about going. 95% of the shooters who participate will gladly give you advise and it's a great way to test your gear under pressure.


Pitt said...

Rumson is absolutely correct. Many people believe they are the reincarnation of Wyatt Earp when they are standing on a square range with their favorite blaster du jour. However if you invite those same people to an action match, you hear the same lame excuses... Oh, I would love to do that, but I have to take the wife out to pick out new panties that day. Or my other favorite, "I would go, but I don't want to make the other shooters look bad."

I don't care what kind of pistol someone else is packing, all I care about is if they are good with it or not.

You want a lesson in humility, take your CCW rig and go play IDPA. See how good you do with that J-frame .357 when you have to double tap 3 separate targets and do a speed reload with a hostage rescue shot in under 30seconds.