Sunday, August 22, 2010

Use of rifles for Survival


Hey FerFAL,

Thanks so much for your book/blog. Every time I read it I find something new & interesting to help me prepare for the coming storm.

That said, I have been looking at getting a semi-auto rifle in 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester. This will be my first one, and I am a poor college student. I know you like FAL's particularly, as do many other people. As I have been looking at which rifle to get I came across the Saiga .308, which is an AK-47 variant chambered for 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester. The stock version of the Saiga is sold in the US in a sporting configuration (i.e., traditional wooden rifle stock without pistol grip and low capacity mags). They are relatively easy to convert back to the standard AK configuration, however, with aftermarket parts and minimal gunsmithing.

As I have been researching which of the two to choose I have come to the conclusion that the FAL is probably a nicer weapon, but that it requires a little more care and is more expensive. The Saiga is cheaper and probably more abuse tolerant owing to its AK-47 heritage. Spare parts are probably a little harder to come by as it is not as widespread a weapon as the FAL.

In an ideal world, I would probably go with the FAL, but I'm poor (as mentioned earlier) and am trying to take care of other preparations as well (such as having adequate food storage, first aid supplies, etc.). For someone on a limited budget, do you think the Saiga would be a good alternative?

Thanks,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan. While the Saiga is a fine choice, given that you’re a poor student you might want to go with the original thing: AK47
You can get a Yugoslavian underfolder and a bunch of magazines for less than 500 dollars. (400 if you go for a Romanian WASR) The weapon is as rugged as it gets, accurate enough for self defense ranges, and the 7.62x39 mm ammo is much cheaper than 308W. Its not as powerful but its still .30 caliber and you will be able to purchase more of it both for training and keeping stocked.
If I were you, no doubt that’s what I would get.


Hi "Ferfal".
I really enjoy and appreciate your book and blog. I've learned a lot
about preparedness. I own 9mm & 22lr handguns, 40 cal subgun and a 12
gauge and am considering buying a Saiga 7.62x39. However, living in an
apartment, I don't see what type of scenario would require the use of an
assualt rifle. In what type of situations did you use one (or wished you
had one with you)?
Thanks for the great work you do to get people prepared for the likely
rough times ahead.
Regards,

Anthony
North Carolina

Hi Anthony,
First of all, what you have in mind is not an assault rifle since it’s not selective fire and it can’t shoot fully automatic. It does look like one but it only fires one round at a time, big difference. Real assault rifles are class III firearms. Legal to own in some States but cost a small fortune, reason why they are mostly reserved to collectors. The liberal media just likes using the word assault rifle because it sounds more scary and intimidating, and that sells news better. Lets just call them semi auto rifles which is what they really are. Let the media and anti gun fanatics choke on their stigmatization attempt. ;-)
About the Saiga, as I was saying before, I’d rather go with the AK47.
For the person that wants to be well armed, a semi auto rifle is necessary to complete the firearm toolbox. While self defense situations are considered pretty rare, the truth is that with crime as bad as the one we have here, sooner or later you end up needing to defend yourself. Gladly, if the training is combined with a good dose of awareness, in most cases just having a firearm is enough. The NRA says that in violent encounters, 9 out of 10 times the mere presence of a firearm in the hands of the law abiding citizen is enough to send criminals on their way. I believe the statistic is pretty accurate.
In one occasion I had a rifle with me just when I needed it. I wont get into any details, but fortunately no one got hurt. Lets just say bad people can be very reasonable and understandable when looking into a gun barrel. That’s reason enough to get a carry license and be armed at all times. 90% of the time you’ll have a handgun with you when you need it… IF you get a CCW license. The handgun is harder to shoot accurately, has less power and capacity, but its concealable and that means it will be with you when needed, and that makes all the difference in the world. Because of this, your training will mostly revolve around the weapon you’re most likely to have with you, your handgun.
But what abut the rifle? When you need a weapon and you have the chance to get to it, the rifle is a force multiplier. You’ll use it when you have the choice.
Agreed, in a small apartment I’d still pick a handgun because the longer weapon may be a disadvantage in tight quarters, but if you’re shooting people coming at you from the outside, the rifle will turn most cover into concealment. If you end up bugging out and going somewhere that is geographically difference, if you organize with your neighbors to provide security for your neighborhood after a disaster you will want your rifle. If you end up using it for hunting, its quite capable of killing most game in USA. You’ll want a few extra mags (say 10 minimum) ammo to load them and some sort of chest rig or shoulder pack to carry the spare ammo and gear.
The situations in which you’ll need the rifle (and even less likely) actually HAVE it with you are rare. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get one. It is indeed a force multiplier when in the right hands.

FerFAL

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

i remember seeing in the Rodney King LA riots that the companies that surrounded their businesses
with men armed with assault rifles that the rioters, looters and arsonists just passed them up for the most part.

Joseph said...

My basic weapons loadout is a S&W 9mm, 12 Gauge pump, and an SKS. I don't like the limited capacity of an SKS, but I am still deciding between an AK style or AR15 style. (I also have .22, .45 and 7.62x54R). I live in an apartment complex in a large urban area. Thinking of getting the AK as a temp solution, I can always trade it in at a later date. What are good AK variants, ie, dependable?

Bones said...

Remember, the "AR" in "AR-15" stands for "Armalite Rifle" - semi auto as FerFal says!

Speaking of which, it's very easy to build your own AR-15 (or M-4) clone very cheaply (around $500 if you look hard enough) and learn enough about it in the process that you'll be able to fix any malfunction. Parts and ammo are cheap and easily obtainable.

For portability it's hard to beat an M4 style rifle with a collapsible stock. They're lightweight, handy and have low recoil with ballistics that work well indoors or out.

In the end, just having a rifle is more important than the choice of caliber. (and no, a 22lr doesn't count as a real rifle caliber but yes you should still have one! ;p )

FightinBluHen51 said...

Unabashed AK owner here. I will admit that I do not practice enough, and that is simply from a time perspective as well as an ammo rationing perspective. Now that ammo costs are coming back down, and I can restock at reasonable prices to my "safe" level of 1k rounds on hand, I will shoot some more.

AKs, are ugly, rugged, and do what you need them to do: go bang every time you pull the trigger. I do not do much practice beyond 50 yards, because I do not plan to engage targets much beyond those ranges in SHTF situtations. At those ranges, I can usually keep acceptable combat accuracy with iron sights to 23-24 rounds out of a 30 rd mag with combloc ammo.

As FerFAL said, a good number of magazines to have on hand is 10, and when I shoot, I usually stuff 4 into a 6 mag Eagle chest rig. Over kill for the range? Sure, but if ever in a move and shoot situation, better to be prepared.

I purchased my Rommy for about 425 all taxes, shipping, and paperwork fees taken care off and got a bayo and 10 mags out of it. (It was a friend deal, but still a good deal). Roughly a little below market pricing about a year and a half ago. 1000 rounds then, cost me about 225 shipped, and today would run you 50 bucks cheaper.

Additionally, I've bought a Rommy wire side folder for $50 bucks, and now have a perfectly good arm that is compact and easy to maneuver in and out of vehicles if necessary, and has acceptable combat accuracy (22~23 / 30 rounds on an 8" paper plate) from 50 yards and in, to command control of any SHTF situation, and all for less than 700 bucks.

THAT is what you are looking for on a budget for your first preparedness semi-auto sporting rifle.

Anonymous said...

Saiga rifles are made in the Russkie factorys,not like the 'parts'
guns sold as AKs in the usa.
They come in the military calibers,usa and russian.
Cheaper and better,but not the terrorist look of an AK.The AK looks cool,but the Saiga is a better choice.Check it out...

http://forum.saiga-12.com/

FerFAL said...

Ak47 aren't more "terrorist" guns than M16 or any other rifle for that matter. Allow that BS to float and dont be surprised when they ban AKs, then SKS, then ARs and then all other firearms. Remember that the worst terrorists in recent history used cardboard cutters. Lets not forget such a lesson so quickly.

FerFAL

Anonymous said...

If you only have one or two magazines it appears that the Saiga is less expensive than the FAL, but if you decide to purchase more than a couple of magazines for the Saiga the cost can equal a FAL which has cheap magazines. In the U.S. anyway.

It also seems like a number of people trade the Saiga for a FAL because they don't like the way a Saiga shoots compared to a FAL.
I would like to read a target range comparison review but I haven't found one yet.

The question seems to be, low cost entry vs. high cost entry, which can you afford up front and what do you want in the end?

I look at it like this: The 7.62x39 is like having a big knife while the 7.62x59 and 54r are like having a machete. Big knives and machetes are both good to have for different purposes.

I think maybe the bad guys of the world (if they have a rifle) predominantly have AK's, so having a .308 might be an advantage.

I like them all. But if I had to hand one to a girl (most, not all girls mind you) I would prefer to do so with the 7.69x39 as it is much easier to shoot and lighter without as much felt recoil.

Just my opinion, others may vary ~ eh?

Anonymous said...

FightnBluHen51,

When possible, Mojo Sights really are worth while. Peep sights are the fastest iron sights. Also check out the YUGO M67 at J&G.































a

Pitt said...

Unabashed Saiga owner here, mine runs in .223. I've done the 922R basic conversion with a little bit of pimp added in the form of a Ultimak rail and a Primary Arms T1 clone red dot. Want to add an Ace sidefolder stock when funds loosen up.

Ferfal is right, most of the time your pistol is what you will have, but when you "need" a rifle you really NEED A RIFLE.

Get the Wasr. They are cheap and they work. Manual of arms is simple. And realize that as things get worse, the criminals will become emboldened and will need to be put down, hard!

Scan YouTube for tags such as Criminals Gone Wild and street crime. Also scan for videos for New Orleans 9th Ward gangs. You'll be rushing to the gunstore asap.
Scan Youtube for tags such as

Pitt said...

Anonymous said...
i remember seeing in the Rodney King LA riots that the companies that surrounded their businesses
with men armed with assault rifles that the rioters, looters and arsonists just passed them up for the most part.

Very true. Many of the most heavily and well prepared shopkeepers were Korean. They didn't get burned out, but many of the black owned businesses were.

Anonymous said...

The Kalashnikov action is best for most for long list of reasons I don't have time for. All other rifles are reliable if operated and maintained by a trained rifleman with support. The Kalashnikov is for the masses and for those who appreciate the primitive conditions of war. Being a marksman is good. Being a good snap shot is far better. But never putting yourself in that situation is best.

a

Joseph said...

Does anybody have a good source for an FAL? And at least an idea of prices?

David said...

"(22~23 / 30 rounds on an 8" paper plate) from 50 yards "

The AR costs more (a good "complete upper" is over $600 mail-ordered, a complete lower is ~$300 to build) but you end up with a rifle that you'll enjoy shooting (AKA "practicing") instead of wondering if every miss is you or the rifle.

For more authoritative info on rifle ballistics:
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7274

FightinBluHen51 said...

Exactly Dave. A buddy of mine, who is far more prepared, versed, and equipped had been riding me for a long time and finally told me to buy one of his AKs. I ended up with a rifle and ammo for the cost of a .223 AR upper, and have managed to practice enough to have the aforementioned acceptable combat accuracy.

Now, none of this is under duress, but, as mentioned a few times on this blog, best not to put yourself into situations like that, it's only for the unavoidable situations.

To the Anonymous that said try mojo sights, I've already determined that I will be adding a set of Meprolight Night Sights in the not so distant future.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=75876/sku/AK_47_Night_Sight_Set__AKM_Pattern

FerFAL, keep up the great blog as always! Maybe after a get few other items in my firearms tool box and preps kit, I will be seeking your opinion for an FAL purchase!

Anonymous said...

@Joseph

http://www.classicarms.us/

I've purchased from them in the past and have been very pleased. Right now, they have the following:

NEW FAL G 1 VERSION .308 SEMI-AUTO RIFLE $649.95

Shambhala said...

Joseph

I own two SKS. 10 rounds is a substantial capacity. We're talking social upheaval, but not war.

Even though I own an AK, I wouldnt feel at a disadvantage in "boom power" with an SKS.

word verification: dingando. Better than "chingando"

Anonymous said...

NEW FAL G 1 VERSION .308 SEMI-AUTO RIFLE $649.95

That's about the same price as a Saiga (last time I looked) the question is, is the FAL G 1 Version something less than par?

For instance, some people say the CETME's (and other guns assembled in the U.S. from imported parts) are put together as if by drunken monkey's, but every once in awhile you can get a good one.

I had not thought about putting night sights (also known as little green dots) on my AK, do the green dots glow in the dark?
And, how bad off am I at night without them?

I now wish I would have accepted an invitation to go hunting for coyotes at night after-all.

I decided against the AR because I read it needed to be cleaned often and kept that way because just one little bit of sand can stop it up, so unlike the AK. I suppose that's a trade off for accuracy?

And while I like the SKS, I did notice they've been relegated to the status of ceremonial gun only in the various military's of the world. I imagine there's a reason for that, or it might just be due to cronyism, I don't know.

- trust but verify.

russell1200 said...

My earlier comment got lost in blogger land: Sigh.

An AK to some extent acts as a machine pistol with some punch. Its actions lack of accuracy at range is somewhat notorious. Granted at one shot at a time that is likely to be a little better, but it is still only one shot at a time.

If you are really tight on money, you are better off buying a shotgun (easily the deadliest in close weapon), or a bolt action rifle, or both.

You can buy a 12 ga pump and your 308 bolt action at less cost than you can often buy your "assault rifle" semi auto.

As a civilian you are only going to fire one shot at a time in any case. In general it is the first shot of a sequence that has the best chance of hitting. If you have to engage 2+ targets in sequence at close ranges you are very likely toast in a civilian setting anyway: no one is giving you backup.

If you put an in expensive scope, on your inexpensive bolt action, you will be able to start hitting beyond 100 yards.

If you put a hot round in it, you also may even be able to penetrate Type IV ballistic armor.

Anonymous said...

I don't know for US and South America, but in Europe, currently, the cheaper is the CZ VZ-58.
for 300€, you can have it, new, with 4 magazines, and because it's same caliber than AK, the munitions are very cheap too.

FerFAL said...

Hi Russell1200, I rejected your previous comment because it was full of wrong statements about the AK (sorry, didn't notice it was you posting it) I will reject comments that state wrong information as if it were a fact, simply because I’ve had too many complains about readers that sign up for comment feeds and have told me what a waste of time it was for them. I understand what they mean.
The AK is NOT inaccurate, sure isn't as inaccurate as you believe and its not some spray and pray machine gun, even though that may be what some people believe, and repeat to others without knowing better. What you have sometimes is sloppy put together AKs or parts of poor quality. Any 400-500 USD AK as the ones being sold these days will perform excellently in the reliability department and good enough in terms of accuracy. Get better sights and a trigger job and you’ll go from good to very good accuracy.
While not the most accurate gun in the planet, you can hit chest size targets, while on the move, with a bit of training at 50-75 yards. Put a knee to the ground and a half-way decent shooter wont have a problem hitting targets 100-150 yards away. Are some other guns more accurate? Sure. Do I prefer an AK over very much anything else (except maybe a nice short barrel FAL) for within 100 yard situation, where you may have to engage multiple targets? You bet. Its just perfect for that type of task.
For 99.9% of the self defense needs, the survivalist will be shooting well within those ranges. Keep in mind that even during civil unrest, you will have to respond for your actions later when order is restored. Shooting people walking your way 100 yards away is not self defense and rest assured, chances are you’ll be brought to justice for it.
Also, the 7.62x39mm is nothing compared to a machine pistol ( I assume you mean pistol caliber one) the 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar to 30-30, a very popular hunting caliber. Get some soft points or quality hollow points and you wont just have “some punch”, you’ll have more stopping power than a 12 ga.
The shotgun you recommend has less power, less magazine capacity, requires more training to use, requires a mechanical operation involving both hands for each shot you fire and is almost useless with a cylinder choke beyond 40 yards. Slugs stretch that range to 60 or 70 yards, but man are you better off with an AK instead. In reality, while shotguns are tough, powerful and reliable, the AK is too and does it all better and faster when it comes to fighting.
Russell, using the term “assault rifle” when referring to a semi auto carbine is pure prejudice. A shotgun and bolt action rifle can’t do what an AK can when it comes to fighting and they aren’t a better option. For target shooting and hunting alone, sure, but not for fighting.
“As a civilian you are only going to fire one shot at a time in any case.”
As a civilian you’ll be firing as many shots as you need, just like anyone else, and I assure you two things. 1) You wont want to have to perform a complex mechanical movement between shots 2) You’ll want more ammo than what shotguns or bolt action rifles provide.
About cost, this new built AKM74 5.45x39 costs 339.95 USD on-line at J&G sales.
http://www.jgsales.com/images/1%20CAI%20AKM74%20M74%20ERTD%205.45x39%201-1398.jpg
A cheap Mossberg 500 will cost 270 USD, that leaves you 69.93 for your bolt rifle. Good luck with that.
For a poor person that has self defense in mind when getting a long arm, AK is today the one choice that gives you the most bang per buck.
Also, about ammo penetrating type IV armor, you wont penetrate it just because you have a “hot” round. Type IV armor stops up to AP 30-06 (that’s armor piercing ammo) so unless you move into 50 BMG, no other commonly available military round will go through Type IV armor.
This is what I mean about comments full of wrong information stated like a fact. I’m posting it to clarify because there may be more people out there that think AK aren’t accurate enough.

FerFAL

FerFAL said...

Hi Russell1200, I rejected your previous comment because it was full of wrong statements about the AK (sorry, didn't notice it was you posting it) I will reject comments that state wrong information as if it were a fact, simply because I’ve had too many complains about readers that sign up for comment feeds and have told me what a waste of time it was for them. I understand what they mean.
The AK is NOT inaccurate, sure isn't as inaccurate as you believe and its not some spray and pray machine gun, even though that may be what some people believe, and repeat to others without knowing better. What you have sometimes is sloppy put together AKs or parts of poor quality. Any 400-500 USD AK as the ones being sold these days will perform excellently in the reliability department and good enough in terms of accuracy. Get better sights and a trigger job and you’ll go from good to very good accuracy.
While not the most accurate gun in the planet, you can hit chest size targets, while on the move, with a bit of training at 50-75 yards. Put a knee to the ground and a half-way decent shooter wont have a problem hitting targets 100-150 yards away. Are some other guns more accurate? Sure. Do I prefer an AK over very much anything else (except maybe a nice short barrel FAL) for within 100 yard situation, where you may have to engage multiple targets? You bet. Its just perfect for that type of task.
For 99.9% of the self defense needs, the survivalist will be shooting well within those ranges. Keep in mind that even during civil unrest, you will have to respond for your actions later when order is restored. Shooting people walking your way 100 yards away is not self defense and rest assured, chances are you’ll be brought to justice for it.
Also, the 7.62x39mm is nothing compared to a machine pistol ( I assume you mean pistol caliber one) the 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar to 30-30, a very popular hunting caliber. Get some soft points or quality hollow points and you wont just have “some punch”, you’ll have more stopping power than a 12 ga.
The shotgun you recommend has less power, less magazine capacity, requires more training to use, requires a mechanical operation involving both hands for each shot you fire and is almost useless with a cylinder choke beyond 40 yards. Slugs stretch that range to 60 or 70 yards, but man are you better off with an AK instead. In reality, while shotguns are tough, powerful and reliable, the AK is too and does it all better and faster when it comes to fighting.
Russell, using the term “assault rifle” when referring to a semi auto carbine is pure prejudice. A shotgun and bolt action rifle can’t do what an AK can when it comes to fighting and they aren’t a better option. For target shooting and hunting alone, sure, but not for fighting.
“As a civilian you are only going to fire one shot at a time in any case.”
As a civilian you’ll be firing as many shots as you need, just like anyone else, and I assure you two things. 1) You wont want to have to perform a complex mechanical movement between shots 2) You’ll want more ammo than what shotguns or bolt action rifles provide.
About cost, a new built AKM74 5.45x39 costs 339.95 USD on-line at J&G sales.
A cheap Mossberg 500 will cost 270 USD, that leaves you 69.93 for your bolt rifle. Good luck with that.
For a poor person that has self defense in mind when getting a long arm, AK is today the one choice that gives you the most bang per buck.
Also, about ammo penetrating type IV armor, you wont penetrate it just because you have a “hot” round. Type IV armor stops up to AP 30-06 (that’s armor piercing ammo) so unless you move into 50 BMG, no other commonly available military round will go through Type IV armor.
This is what I mean about comments full of wrong information stated like a fact. I’m posting it to clarify because there may be more people out there that think AK aren’t accurate enough.

FerFAL

FerFAL said...

Hi Russell1200, I rejected your previous comment because it was full of wrong statements about the AK (sorry, didn't notice it was you posting it) I will reject comments that state wrong information as if it were a fact, simply because I’ve had too many complains about readers that sign up for comment feeds and have told me what a waste of time it was for them. I understand what they mean.
The AK is NOT inaccurate, sure isn't as inaccurate as you believe and its not some spray and pray machine gun, even though that may be what some people believe, and repeat to others without knowing better. What you have sometimes is sloppy put together AKs or parts of poor quality. Any 400-500 USD AK as the ones being sold these days will perform excellently in the reliability department and good enough in terms of accuracy. Get better sights and a trigger job and you’ll go from good to very good accuracy.
While not the most accurate gun in the planet, you can hit chest size targets, while on the move, with a bit of training at 50-75 yards. Put a knee to the ground and a half-way decent shooter wont have a problem hitting targets 100-150 yards away. Are some other guns more accurate? Sure. Do I prefer an AK over very much anything else (except maybe a nice short barrel FAL) for within 100 yard situation, where you may have to engage multiple targets? You bet. Its just perfect for that type of task.
For 99.9% of the self defense needs, the survivalist will be shooting well within those ranges. Keep in mind that even during civil unrest, you will have to respond for your actions later when order is restored. Shooting people walking your way 100 yards away is not self defense and rest assured, chances are you’ll be brought to justice for it.

FerFAL

FerFAL said...

Also, the 7.62x39mm is nothing compared to a machine pistol ( I assume you mean pistol caliber one) the 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar to 30-30, a very popular hunting caliber. Get some soft points or quality hollow points and you wont just have “some punch”, you’ll have more stopping power than a 12 ga.
The shotgun you recommend has less power, less magazine capacity, requires more training to use, requires a mechanical operation involving both hands for each shot you fire and is almost useless with a cylinder choke beyond 40 yards. Slugs stretch that range to 60 or 70 yards, but man are you better off with an AK instead. In reality, while shotguns are tough, powerful and reliable, the AK is too and does it all better and faster when it comes to fighting.
Russell, using the term “assault rifle” when referring to a semi auto carbine is pure prejudice. A shotgun and bolt action rifle can’t do what an AK can when it comes to fighting and they aren’t a better option. For target shooting and hunting alone, sure, but not for fighting.
“As a civilian you are only going to fire one shot at a time in any case.”
As a civilian you’ll be firing as many shots as you need, just like anyone else, and I assure you two things. 1) You wont want to have to perform a complex mechanical movement between shots 2) You’ll want more ammo than what shotguns or bolt action rifles provide.
About cost, this new built AKM74 5.45x39 costs 339.95 USD on-line at J&G sales.
http://www.jgsales.com/images/1%20CAI%20AKM74%20M74%20ERTD%205.45x39%201-1398.jpg
A cheap Mossberg 500 will cost 270 USD, that leaves you 69.93 for your bolt rifle. Good luck with that.
For a poor person that has self defense in mind when getting a long arm, AK is today the one choice that gives you the most bang per buck.
Also, about ammo penetrating type IV armor, you wont penetrate it just because you have a “hot” round. Type IV armor stops up to AP 30-06 (that’s armor piercing ammo) so unless you move into 50 BMG, no other commonly available military round will go through Type IV armor.
This is what I mean about comments full of wrong information stated like a fact. I’m posting it to clarify because there may be more people out there that think AK aren’t accurate enough.

FerFAL

FerFAL said...

Also, the 7.62x39mm is nothing compared to a machine pistol ( I assume you mean pistol caliber one) the 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar to 30-30, a very popular hunting caliber. Get some soft points or quality hollow points and you wont just have “some punch”, you’ll have more stopping power than a 12 ga.
The shotgun you recommend has less power, less magazine capacity, requires more training to use, requires a mechanical operation involving both hands for each shot you fire and is almost useless with a cylinder choke beyond 40 yards. Slugs stretch that range to 60 or 70 yards, but man are you better off with an AK instead. In reality, while shotguns are tough, powerful and reliable, the AK is too and does it all better and faster when it comes to fighting.
Russell, using the term “assault rifle” when referring to a semi auto carbine is pure prejudice. A shotgun and bolt action rifle can’t do what an AK can when it comes to fighting and they aren’t a better option. For target shooting and hunting alone, sure, but not for fighting.

FerFAL

FerFAL said...

“As a civilian you are only going to fire one shot at a time in any case.”
As a civilian you’ll be firing as many shots as you need, just like anyone else, and I assure you two things. 1) You wont want to have to perform a complex mechanical movement between shots 2) You’ll want more ammo than what shotguns or bolt action rifles provide.
About cost, this new built AKM74 5.45x39 costs 339.95 USD on-line at J&G sales.
http://www.jgsales.com
A cheap Mossberg 500 will cost 270 USD, that leaves you 69.93 for your bolt rifle. Good luck with that.
For a poor person that has self defense in mind when getting a long arm, AK is today the one choice that gives you the most bang per buck.
Also, about ammo penetrating type IV armor, you wont penetrate it just because you have a “hot” round. Type IV armor stops up to AP 30-06 (that’s armor piercing ammo) so unless you move into 50 BMG, no other commonly available military round will go through Type IV armor.
This is what I mean about comments full of wrong information stated like a fact. I’m posting it to clarify because there may be more people out there that think AK aren’t accurate enough.

FerFAL

Anonymous said...

Joseph,

If you're looking for quality, inexpensive FAL's, I would suggest the FAL Files' marketplace (free registration required, but it takes a couple days to receive approval). Currently there are a number of good used FAL's (with mags) for under $1000. These tend to be of much better quality than some of the "new" FAL's you can buy for a comparable price.

Also, most of the "new" FAL's (many AK's too, for that matter) being sold today are "parts guns". (DS Arms is an exception to this rule; they build all new weapons here in the US, but they are pricey). That is, they have been built on US made (sometimes imported) receivers with military surplus spare parts. Quality can vary a lot depending on who builds them. The general consensus is you should try one out before buying it to ensure that you get a good, reliable weapon.

Right now the market for used FAL's and AK's is pretty soft due to the poor economy. A few years ago many hobbyists would build parts guns as mentioned earlier. Many of these same hobbyists are now short on cash due to the economy and are selling off their excess weapons. Over the past week I have seen quite a number of used FAL's go on the market with very little serious interest shown in them. Some have been on the market for over a month. I expect more will be appearing, but the supply is finite. If you want one, I would buy one while they are still available and while it is still legal to do so.

Hope this helps.

Jonathan

Brett Rodgers said...

One thing though that is good is the ammo for sale because regardless where you go you can find some ammo for pretty cheap or in bulk. Thats one good thing that my friend and I have realized. Thanks for the blog!