Sunday, April 17, 2011

Why you always carry with a round in the chamber and some other considerations


Hey Fer Fal, a friend forwarded this to me.  It shows why it is so important to carry your handgun with one round already in the chamber.
Mr. Carlo
http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2011/04/04/front-sights-monday-blog-why-you-carry-a-loaded-gun/

Front Sight’s Monday Blog: Why You Carry a Loaded Gun…

I am often asked if I think it is safe or smart to carry a gun with a live cartridge in the chamber.
My answer is, “Yes, a live round in the chamber of a modern handgun, coupled with strict adherence to the Four, Universal Safety Rules is safe and smart.”
Safe, because as long as you keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target, the gun will not fire the loaded round in the chamber.
Smart, because when you need a gun to save your life or the lives of your loved ones, FRACTIONS of seconds count. At that moment you need a loaded gun, RIGHT NOW!
Under the stress of a lethal encounter, you do not want to be hampered or slowed in your response to someone trying to kill you, by having to chamber a live round into your gun.
This week I have surveillance video that show exactly what can happen when you carry a gun with an empty chamber.
This is a disturbing video, but demonstrates better than any words I might convey, why you need to not only carry your weapon with a live round in the chamber, but also train to present it smoothly, quickly, and hit with your first shot(s).
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(Click Here if the video doesn’t work, or you’re using an iPhone/iPad.)




Thanks Mr. Carlo for the link , the video clearly shows how things can go very wrong very fast and why its simply mandatory to train as you expect to fight in a gunfight.
Someone commented some time ago that civilians dont get into gunfights, that that’s for military. Well, depends on what you consider it to be a gunfight. In my opinion this is a good example of a robbery that ends up in a gunfight. A gunfight means people fighting with guns. There’s no minimum shot fired required. Pray that if it ever comes to that all you need is a single shot to stop your one and only armed attacker!

In this video’s case poor training had disastrous results. You must train with the weapon you will be carrying, chambered round, with the same holster you’ll carry and train using similar clothing to the ones you carry daily. You shoot with a tight fitting shooting shirt that never gets in the way? Then start using that every day, otherwise get real and adjust you daily clothing so that it does better during your shooting sessions and get used to wearing that wardrobe daily.
Unless you take shooting as a sport, dont seek unrealistic advantages during training only to score better and faster or to impress others. Ego, need to be quicker or better than the shooter next to you has nothing to do with the ultimate goal which is performing at your best during a real life threatening encounter.

As I watched this video I was reminded of the many incidents other people told me were an empty chamber got someone killed as well. Even when attached at close range with a knife, an empty chamber may be a fatal mistake.

You don’t feel comfortable carrying that way? Then you need to train more and be more consistent with your administrative handling of the firearm you own. Maybe even reconsider if you’re ready to accept the responsibility of owning a firearm at all. This is a serious decision and there’s no right and wrong answer. Some people simply will not have the risk of a negligent discharge. Could you live with yourself if your kids shoots himself accidentally with your weapon? It happens all the time and it even happens to responsible, trained people. Forget about thinking you’re perfect. There’s only two types of firearm owners out there: a) Those that had a negligent discharge b) Those that didn’t have a negligent discharge … yet. It will happen.

The only thing you can hope for is that when it does your firearm is aimed in a dirction where the projectilce wont cause the injure or death of innocent people. Deadly serious a gun is.
Then again, could you live with yourself if a situation occurs where your family is hurt, tortured, raped, killed and you failed to protect them? What’s the risk of one compared to another? How responsible are you? In spite of beign extremly careful and responsible are you still accepting the responsaiblity, knowing you’re human after all and just can’t assure 100% perfection on anthing, let alone a tool intended to incapacitate a peron as fast as posible? Its up to you and one way or another you have to live with the choice you make.
Take care folks, train and be responsible.
FerFAL
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13 comments:

Anonymous said...

"The only thing you can hope for is that when it does your firearm is aimed in a dirction where the projectilce wont cause the injure or death of innocent people."

Unfortunately, a Glock in an IWB holster, carried in the 2 o' clock position, will probably blow off critical parts of your male anatomy. IWB with a Glock is a scary endeavor, IMHO. Life is always a risk/reward situation. I'd rather risk an additional second in the hopefully very rare situation when my life is at risk, vs. routinely carrying a G30 IWB with a chambered round.

JMHO.

Steve

DaShui said...

I've been concerned about accidental discharge lately because of where i carry, belly band, and I don't like where it is pointing. My thought is to move back to the traditional DA/SA trigger pull, with the initial pull about 12 pounds.

Anonymous said...

Hey Fer Fal. I would also add that there is a good way to prevent a negligent discharge, other than the methods mentioned. One is to purchase a revolver. Smith & Wesson or Ruger are the best. Get one that is Double Action Only (meaning the hammer is hidden). The amount of force it takes to pull the trigger on a revolver is far greater than on a glock, and the length of the pull is about 4 times greater, too. The other advantage to not having a hammer is it can't get snagged on your clothing if you draw it from your pocket. (Note: always use a pocket holster)

If you still want an automatic, get a Sig. There are a couple of types of triggers that Sig offers. One is the DAK which is double action only and operates the hammer a lot like a revolver, though the pull is not as heavy. Every time the trigger is pulled, it cocks the hammer which takes extra effort.

The other is the DA/SA trigger. That stands for Double Action/Single Action. The first trigger pull is a long, hard pull. The subsequent pulls are all in single action (short and easy). Great for a gun fight. The only thing with this is you have to remember to hit the decocker button after you place a round in the chamber, otherwise, your first shot is single action.

Just something to consider. If you carry a glock, just keep it in a holster that covers the trigger. That should help.


-Mr. Carlo

David said...

Looks like another good reason to wear body armor.

gaga said...

"Looks like another good reason to wear body armor."
And maybe a reason to reassess your security if someone can walk up and shoot you.
There are a whole host of ways to improve your survivability and reduce the probability of an attack in the first place. Do you think having a round in the chamber would have saved his life? There were three guns firing at him.

Nolan said...

Wow...it looks like he got hit hard to the body before he knew he was in trouble.

I think the only thing that could have saved this guy would have been body armor. I wonder if the robbers knew that guy carried a gun because they immediately shoot him before he even begins to respond to them but they ignore everybody else.

Also, it looks like he has to try three times before he is incapacitated and I don't see him getting off a shot.

I agree that if you are carrying a modern firearm, then there is no reason for an empty chamber. From what I've read most accidental discharges with a Glock occur when holstering the gun anyways.

thsu said...

If you are worried about carrying a round in the chamber, increase the trigger pull of your Glock.

You can get springs and connectors that increase the pull by 3lbs, specifically designed by Glock for training of police recruits.

After enough familiarization, most officers go back to the original Glock triggers, but the heavier triggers do seem to help reduce problems with new recruits.

For a civilian, I would treat it as a temporary thing, until you get more used to carrying.

Also note that part of the "problem" is bad holsters. You really need a good holster made of form fitted heavy leather or plastic, in order to properly protect the trigger against accidental bumping.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ferfal,

My neighborhood, and house were hit by an EF-2 tornado three days ago. I thought I would share what I learned.

Power goes out, you need ice and cooler right away. There is no phone, tv, internet. Roads are blocked by trees, down lines.

In my neigborhood police did not come for two days. There was no looting that I know of, but I carried concealed just in case. I never needed the gun yet.

You need a chainsaw if you want to clean up. If you don't have one already, you won't get one.

You need flashlights, candles, and oil lanterns. I had all of these, some people had none of these. They were lost in the dark a lot.

You have to walk, even a bike won't work well because of down trees, debris and lines. You will get blisters fast in tennis shoes, use correct footwear (boots).

You need a grill and gas or charcoal. I had charcoal so I could cook. Some people didn't have this so I cooked their food for them before it spoiled.

After two days our street had power, many others still don't. People without power mostly left their damaged homes because they are not comfortable. My house is damaged but I can live in it. If it was winter, this would be a problem because the roof is open and it would be very cold. You need a tarp to cover the roof. You need access to plywood or have some on hand.

I will update as events unfold.

David said...

I concur with Nolan. This guy's area security was obviously inadequate to the threat. He was shot before he could stand up.

In a place like that I'd have a guard with a locked/loaded, on-safe AR-15 or similar gun (probably in 6.8 or similar).

Here's two holsters that are getting some play in forums I visit:
http://www.kholster.com/
and the "super tuck deluxe" here: http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/

Both are rigid, but I can't help noting that the fastest presentation would probably be from 1 o'clock (or 11 o'clock for LH) but a ND during such a draw would be fatal if it hit the femoral artery.

As a side-note, lefties have trouble with a 8-9 o'clock holster because the gun hits the door frame of a car when getting into the driver's seat.

Pitt said...

gaga said...
"Looks like another good reason to wear body armor."
And maybe a reason to reassess your security if someone can walk up and shoot you.
There are a whole host of ways to improve your survivability and reduce the probability of an attack in the first place. Do you think having a round in the chamber would have saved his life? There were three guns firing at him.

April 18, 2011 1:09 AM

Having his pistol in condition one definitely wouldn't have hurt him. Initially only one guy was shooting at him. He got caught by surprise, in the open and seemed to have a hard time pulling his gun from under his coat.

The other 2 shooters came out later. This was a clumsy ambush. The robbers knew that the store had an armed police officer on duty, so they tried to take him out first. Yeah! for body armor. It definitely saved this guy's life. It also looked like his returned gunfire may have scared off his attackers. He is damned lucky to be alive.

Pitt said...

thsu said...
If you are worried about carrying a round in the chamber, increase the trigger pull of your Glock.

I always worried when I carried my Glock. I never could get used to a light triggered weapon with no addition safety. I always carried my Glocks chamber empty and was always disappointed that I felt I had to do so.

I had no such fear of carried a cocked and locked 1911, Feg Hi-Power or Tanfoglia TA-90. Cocked and locked never bothered me, but the guns weighed a ton.

Then I discovered the Ruger SR9 9mm and I haven't carried my Glocks in months. That SR9 is like a Glock with a safety.

Maldek said...

Hard question.

A trained professional who does at least 1 training per week, has no drinking history, no drug history and is an overall responsible person - such a person can handle a chambered round in most guns.

Most of the people are much less responsible in their lives and unwanted discharges and accidents IMHO pose a much greater risk than the slim chance of needing that split second in the 1:1000 chance you will ever come in such a situation.

Unless you are a professional security man, police officer or gang member the letters "WWW" nowadays stand for "world wide web" rather than "wild wild west".

Idahoser said...

"A trained professional who does at least 1 training per week, has no drinking history, no drug history and is an overall responsible person - such a person can handle a chambered round in most guns"

I'd like to propose that criteria for driving a car, running for office, writing a blog, voting...