Thursday, July 29, 2010

Real world security advice or just wishful thinking?: Learn to tell the difference.


AnonymousAnonymous said...
I'm no expert, but as a bigger guy who sometimes leaves his boots outside and yet still had the house broken into, I don't think the muddy boots idea is a good one.

My friend who is about the same size and was also robbed would agree, and his dog-less dog chain wasn't fake. Word on the street is, people who can afford dogs & can leave their boots outside have money. Dogs and boots are like billboard advertisements for many people: "Here is the end of the rainbow."

A rat criminal thief is not going to care about boots or notes, like an animal they're going to be testing using other criteria like, is it quiet inside, is there any movement inside, can it be done, etc... they might even be watching beforehand. Happened to me in a parking lot full of pickup trucks and burly guys.

The criminals watched me go in so they knew who to watch out for as I came out while one looted my car. My car was the junkiest one in the lot - But - it was an easy target with the windows down. It seems to me they had to have been desperate to do this, and desperate equals unpredictable.

The one thief took off on foot walking away calmly even though he was shaking because he knew I was on to him, how-freaking-ever; I gave up the chase. Partly because I wasn't certain if he had successfully stolen anything or not, yet, and mostly because all I kept thinking was Ferfal/GTA & Co. saying, "it's not worth it, let it go, never corner a rat without a gun (or even then) just give them the money, or stuff or whatever and go the other way, and never talk to the police,... and how could I explain beating him if by chance somehow he didn't have the goods on him" or some such, so I stopped, which was difficult, mentally... so very difficult. The thief disappeared, the accomplice had stopped in a car and gave him a ride.

And it’s a good thing you remembered that. STUFF IN GRAL. ISNT WORTH THE RISK. He took your phone, your wallet, you lost what? 300 bucks? 500? Lets say you shoot the bad guy, even just beat him up (which in some cases is even worse) chances are YOU will be the one that will have to PAY him while he rests happily in the hospital. I saw an Argentine movie recently called “Carancho” where its basically lawyers hiring people to have accidents so as to sue.  I’m mentioning a movie here because it is reality based, this happens a lot around here, people getting into accidents on purpose just to get some money out of you. My brother actually had someone throw himself under his car in the province of Cordoba, just to see if he could get the insurance company to pay him. 

Dont chase criminals, always avoid the confrontation if you can. You will want to kick yourself in the butt a thousand time when you realize the tens of thousands this bastard ends up getting out of you one way or another, or the lawyer cost of defending yourself legally after a shooting. Guy is leaving? Its always the wisest thing to just let him go.

Anyway, the point is I think those types of guys would not be deterred by a lit bathroom light and a Be Back Soon note is a green light to pillage and dash. I could be wrong of course, you just never know what will work.

GLOCK rocks.
July 25, 2010 9:50 PM

You are right. While I think a big dog is more of a deterrent that anything else, and a pretty good self defense measure because criminals try to avoid dealing with big dogs, I agree with the rest of what you said and think you bring some very good points, most importantly, being realistic about your “measures” working or not.
As I read that comment about the boots, I thought the same thing. “It wont work that way”. Boots gets stolen, they don’t scare anyone. A chain with no dog means you don’t have it anymore.

Its important to understand these things because as the crime situation gets worse, the grain WILL get separated from the stalk, and many of the end of the world armchair commando survivalists that honeslt yhave absolutely no idea what it means to deal with high crime and never actually used their own advice, they will be providing you with advice and tips that just don’t work.
Its ok to bluff sometimes, but when ti comes t security bluffing is a very thin and weak later of security.

Don’t have a dog chain pretending to have a dog, HAVE THE ACTUAL DOG! Don’t pretend there’s a strong man in the house, BE a strong man or women and learn to defend yourself, have the tools to do so and learn how to use it. 


AnonymousAnonymous said...

If that other post went through,... I should have added, where I used the word, robbed, both my friend and I have been burglarized while away from home, as well as had intruders come inside While we were home.

And this is in a low crime area overall, with low unemployment, and my friend had a big dog. I never got to hear the rest of his intruder story - that he didn't readily tell it says quite a lot - and the fact he kept the dog.

My wife suffered a home invasion when she was little, the house had several German Sheppards, they just put a gun to her head and told the mother to lock the dogs outside. Then they locked them in the bathroom and proceeded to steal what they could before leaving. The dog helps, and a good one that will react will help a lot, but it is not a guarantee, just another layer.

In one of my experiences, a thief had picked the lock and was surprised I was home sleeping. As he fled quickly down the stairs he actually said he didn't think anyone was home and he was out the door before I'd taken three steps.

I don't think the fact that I was bigger than him played any role in what happened. If he had been bolder & more desperate or armed, things might have worked out to my disadvantage as I was both surprised And completely unarmed at the time, meaning I could have wound up at his mercy. [I just realized, at that moment, you're a slave. Eck.]

...And it sometimes seems that's the way the ruling class wants things, for us to be at the mercy of thieves and thugs.

Catching (if that's the correct word to use) the thief by surprise was the biggest advantage I had, but I don't think that's something to rely on and could work against you.

An alarm of some type might have helped, but I just read an "expert" (somewhere) saying they're not much good at stopping the "expert" thieves & intruders. My guess is, alarms are good against stupid people, but not so much against the smarter ones, which kind do you have?

      Plus, there's that whole bit of, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

Hope that was helpful.

GLOCK rocks.

Experts are one in a million. Take my word for it because I’ve seen how this works all my life, and have had to deal with an ever increasing crime problem all my life as well: Have the good security door, have the burglar bars if you can, and indeed, have the alarm because it does help. In most cases, the stupid criminal will bump into it and leave, the smart criminal will notice it and go for the guy that believed what the “expert” said and didn’t bother installing the alarm. Have the dog and have the security habits so as to not do stupid things as leaving doors unlocked or hanging on the front door to much. Criminals notice all of this and take it all into consideration.



Anonymous said...

how about neighbors?
"i watch yours, you watch mine".
it has helped in this case.
Community Watch is the formal
term. i heard my neighbor's alarm
sound while i was outside. i ran to the house and saw the get-away car.(it took 20 seconds between hearing the alarm and seeing the car)i got the license number and the law did the rest. two criminals, both 17-year-old females. driver was "borrowing" her mother's car. her mother had kicked her out due to illegal drug use. the partner was a very small and skinny friend who could fit through the bathroom window Between the Bars! they got nothing
since the alarm scared them away.
verdict was "community service".

russell1200 said...

I agree on dogs.

Even good neighborhoods will have some rats in them: often children of otherwise O.K. people.

The rats have plenty of time to scope out the neighborhood, and see who actually lives where. Most types of cuteness won't work on them.

A burglar with enough skills to pick a lock, fortunately is "professional" enough and to know that getting in fights with home owners is as much losing game as you getting in fights with thugs. But I wouldn't want to get a professional cornered.

Weaseldog said...

When I was 18 I had a mutt that was a dobie, rottie and german shephard mix. I raised him in the country and took him hunting. He'd catch rabbits for dinner. In the summer, he hardly ever ate dog food. He had no trouble finding food in the fields and woods around the house. I'd see him in the evening playing toss the rat, as he played with his food.

Then we moved back to the city...

While I was out one night, the dog was home with my mom. As she was watching television, someone got one of the windows open in the entry way behind the TV. My mom was scared and froze.

The dog crept up in the dark and quietly waited for the man to get half in the window, then lunged and pulled him in. The dog ripped a bloody shirt off of him and tried his best to keep him from climbing back out the window.

After the man got out, my mom let the dog out in the backyard and heard more of a ruckus and the man and dog disappeared over the back fence.

In the morning we found a trail of blood from the window to the back fence. The dog was fine. We never found out how the burglar fared.

In a related story, a co-worker had his house burglarized and his Golden Retriever evidently had a good time and enjoyed treats from the refrigerator that they set down for him.

I now have a Catahoula and a Shar Pei / Golden Lab. Catahoulas have longstanding reputation as being super family friendly and fiercely territorial. He caught a wild pig a few months ago and brought it back to me. He's another one of the silent hunter types, friendly, affable, but ferocious when challenged.

So to wrap up, not only is a big dog desirable, but you want a big dog from a breed that's known to be protective of property. Irish Setters, Labs, Retrievers are all great family dogs. But they don't have the personality for defense, and many people know this.

There are many breeds of dogs that are great (and safe) with small children, babies etc..., but are also strongly territorial and protective. These are the kinds of dogs you want.

And the old timers in the country here have a saying. If you want a dog for security, get a big dog. Then get a little dog to wake the big dog up.

The little dog also gives the big dog somebody to protect, when you're not home.

My avatar shows Thor and Ginger. Thor is the Catahoula that resembles a German Shepherd.

Weaseldog said...

I had a dog when I was a teen that ambushed a burglar as he was climbing in the window. Tore a bloody shirt off of him and tried to keep him from getting away.

My mom let the dog out and he went over the back fence after the would be thief.

The dog came back. We found a trail of blood in the yard leading to the fence. We never learned the fate of the burglar.

He was a doberman / rottie / german shepherd mix.

A co-worker was burglarized last year. His Golden Retriever had a good time. The burglars gave him left overs from the refrigerator and played with him.

I currently keep a Catahoula and a Shar Pei / Golden Lab mix and a little terrier to keep them alert. My avatar shows my big dogs. Thor and Ginger.

A big dog is good, but it needs to have a protective personality. Not every breed qualifies. My dogs advertise to strangers behind the house and in the street that they are not friendly. Yet both are great with small children. They are just very protective.

Old country saying, "For protection get a big dog. Then get a little dog to wake the big dog up."

Joseph said...

Those ideas, "Leave a big pair of boots outside" and "leave a big dog dish outside" rate right up there with a fist full of keys and throwing up on a rapist.

They are not gonna work. They are fantasy, not actual protection. Any criminal who watches your house for a day or two is going to catch on very quickly that you don't have a dog OR a big strong man living there.

Don Williams said...

Ferfal is right when he warns that criminals will sue you for use of force. A story from here in the USA:

"ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. – A Florida inmate is suing the man he's convicted of burglarizing, claiming the man and two others roughed him up during a citizen's arrest.

Michael Dupree is serving a 12-year sentence for burglary and cocaine possession stemming from a 2007 break-in of a van in St. Petersburg. Dupree allegedly stole a bicycle locked inside and was apprehended after the owner, Anthony McKoy, saw him with the bike down the street.

Dupree says McKoy and two others pointed a gun at him, handcuffed him and placed a knee painfully in his back. He's seeking $500,000 for disabilities and distress suffered during the takedown."


Even if the suit is not successful, you will still have to pay a lawyer to defend you.

Anonymous said...

I carry a camera on my belt everywhere I go. It is a small but decent digital with a awesome zoom on it. I can capture a reconizable face 400 yards away. Don't chase someone who looks suspicious or does something wrong, take their picture. Take a video. And I file a police report whenever a crime is committed (car prowl, etc.). I have a camera outside my house aimed at my cars and looking towards the street. I have helped the police catch more then one criminal including two teenagers who sliced my nieghbors tires across the street.

Anonymous said...

From the guy who wrote the "dog and guy" comment: IIRC, the girl in question was in a place where she could not legally have a gun.

And yes, if she can get a dog or a big dude at home, that is better. But things in her neighborhood do not sound so bad yet that she will have to move in with a dude for "protection."

And I agree, the dog and boots trick is not going to drive off a determined attacker, or someone who takes the time to scope out the neighborhood for a few days. It wasn't intended to stop those situations.

Fortunately, the vast majority of home invasions are not like that. Most robbers or burglars are more opportunistic, in that they choose targets of opportunity. Some criminals may spend days casing a house and will notice that there is no dog or man or whatever there.

Most don't.

Of course, if they spend enough time planning and use surprise, an attacker can neutralize a dog or an armed man too.