Friday, December 25, 2009

Bad Guys with Military/Police Training

Anonymous said...

While I like shotguns for the reason they can quickly incapacitate, the .410 is not a choice. 12ga with low recoil 00Buck from Winchester is the same used by those in law enforcement who are recoil sensitive. Depending on the shotgun, the felt recoil may be similar to that of most 20ga. 12ga ammunition is common and less expensive than 20ga. I also object to the use of flashlights mounted on the shotgun. The light makes you an easy target. If a flashlight needs to be used, use it with a handgun in the right hand and the flashlight in the left hand and away from the body. Keep it in constant motion, high above the head, extreme to the side, arcing etc as you scan.
There are some great training videos demonstrating the technique. This is dangerous business. Personally, I'd rather they came to me.

BTW, Arrow Truck Lines just shut down and without warning. These guys are huge and haul for the military. I believe things will get exciting soon.


Indeed, that’s something everyone should keep in mind.
Sometimes you hear a guy trying to make a case for poor weapons or calibers of choice, and no training being needed.

“I had my 22LR Derringer and that was enough to scare the drunkard that kicked my door down last month!”

Yes, but what happens when you have multiple attackers, armed and with military or police training?

The knowitalls will say you’re dead already. BS, you can win, but it's going to be more difficult and you’ll need all the help you can get, including good weapons and gear and the training to use them, and of course a big dose of luck.

But in these cases half intentions just aren’t enough. This would be the worst case, having to deal with trained, well armed, maybe using armor, capable badguys. If you’re not a worst case scenario type of guy, maybe you don’t think firearms are needed in the first place.

A good Glock, flashlight, preferably a weapon mounted light, body armor and good security setup and habits.
As wisely estimated, there's a possibility of trained people becoming bad guys. Happened here a LOT with cops after 2001. Many of them even have “two jobs”, working as cops and badguys, and some situations are very confusing, when the cops end up shooting with these bad guys that ended up being cops themselves. (I mean NO insult to the good men out there doing such a honorable job, but I have to mention this because it does happen in my country)



Joseph said...


Do you know of any (English) blogs by street cops in your country?

Anonymous said...

A .410 is for shooting squirrels in a residential area, not for defense. Get a 12 ga shotgun with 18 inch barrel and add a KNOXX recoil reducing adjustable stock with pistol grip, around $100. Check out the KNOXX demo videos on their website, they work as advertised, you can shoot slugs all day long with no pain.

Patrick said...

Can you post about the process of legally obtaining a decent handgun in Argentina and what guns and ammo tend to run in pesos?

Anonymous said...

If the formerly-good guys who are now bad guys come looking for you,you'd better have a .30 cal rifle and plan on a follow-up shot to the head, because they will be wearing Class III or Class IV armor.

Maybe that's where the Glock will come in handy, but not before.

Joseph said...

Kind of hard to use any kind of a long arm when one hand is wielding a flashlight...which I suspect was one of the reasons for weapons mounted lights in the first place.

FerFAL said...

Hi Joseph, sorry, no blog of that kind that I know of.

Patrick, check with RENAR website, mostly you need a proof that you have a job, ( lawful income) a psichophisical test, and cetified use of firearms by a RENAR approved instructor. check this website for gun prices. www.tirito.com.ar


Anonymous said...

To the other anonymous poster, the KNOXX stock sounds like a good idea. If the felt recoil is lighter, one's speed can improve. If the recoil is too much, some will finch or will not train/practice. The cheap 'Target' loads are a less expensive lower recoil load.

I like slugs as well. Start with any buck shot and the last two slugs. Slugs hit like freight trains. Some take black bear with slugs and some believe it's good for even Grizzly. That can be a very BIG bear. I would not try it on a BIG Grizzly. It can leave a large hole and punch though thin metal doors (cars) and still do the job. Buck can't do as good job there. Buck might be best up close, but slugs extend the shotguns range from 25-35 yards with buck, to whatever you and your shotgun are capable of out to 100 yards. Know the gun and know the load. Many Vets who have returned to tell the tale of the Jungle, favor the 12ga for up close. Experience is the best teacher. The shell case was made of brass and carried a mixed bag of shot from 0 buck to #6. One cannot help but respect those guys.

Ghost ring sights are nice, but not necessary to shoot slugs, a plain bead sight can work fine. There are glue on (epoxy) front tritium sights that attach right on top of the front bead. One can hit out to 100 yards, but remember that slugs drops like a rock after that. At 50 yards it should plenty accurate. Try different types of slugs to see what works best in your shotgun. Often the plain old 1oz Foster is best. There are even fancy sabot loads that make the 12ga shotgun into the equivent of a .45-70 for a 150 to 200 yard range. (Remington, .45cal 350g around 1,200fps). This is good for the Grizzly and the toughest barrier.

Shotguns are made to hit things that move, train that way, do not use a static target often. Shoot trap. If not trap, a empty plastic milk jug will 'dance' on the ground, but place it on a hill or embankment so that the target keeps your barrel up for two legged animals. Use cheap target loads and stay on it so that it never stops moving. That way whatever moves with whatever you are shooting at, gets hit. Try it with a hand gun, but use empty soda cans. It is fun. Either you or your target or both will be moving at some point. Other expedient methods can be used. In the dark the eyes can see movement not anything else. A slug or bullet is not as good for hitting moving targets. 00 Buck is like shoot 9 .38 (9mm) caliber balls with one pull of the trigger. #4 buck is 24 .22 caliber balls. (ouch!) .410 is for small birds, but a .410 slug might be found if that's all you got.

One can have a light on the shotgun, but know when Not to use it. The cops I know typically do not use weapons mounted lights for a reason. Your mileage may vary.


Anonymous said...

(comment Not directed at you Ferfal, this is for the other commenters)

It's easy for you guys to dog the 410. When your wife is about 5 feet tall with weak wrists it would be just plain ignorant and cruel to hand her a 12 guage. She has a 410 that shoot 5 .36 caliber pellets @ 1200fps every pull of the trigger. It has a pistol grip, 18" barrel, and laser sight sight. She can do a headshot on her back from 25' away. She point shoots from the hip at 10 yards. Sometimes less is more.
In all fairness I have the 12 guage because I am stronger. I use a weapon mounted light for a reason. Firing a 12 guage requires both hands and to 'flash' blind and identify the target. It's a SureFire. If I found a laser locally at a good price i'd mount it.
It all depends on the person behind the weapon. What's right for a big guy doesn't work for all women and children. I've seen tough guys at the range trying to get their wives or girlfriends to shoot big calibers. The women usually sour on this quickly and it comes back to bite the guys when the women don't like guns anymore. I'm too old to waste time being macho. I go with what works.