Wednesday, January 27, 2010

Reply: Question

Anon 12:37 said:
" Your comments assume only a severe degree of financial collapse."

Hi Anon,
No, that's not what I said.
Please read what I wrote again. What I'm saying is that for the most probable, most realistic events, everything from a flood,terrorist attack ( 9/11, was bad, but the world didn't end either)recession, high crime, economic collapse or most of what you can think of, in my humble opinion the answer isn't spending a lot of money on a farm and strongly anchoring yourself and all your resources on a fixed location.

I just dont think its the answer to the worst case scenario nor do I believe it helps much during short and medium term events either.
Other than food and supplies, when you talk about setting up gas station underground tanks, alternative power systems, make your own biodiesel, setting up a fully functional farm that covers everything from live stock to harvesting, buying several working acres,tractors, a couple different vehicles, build a reinforced retreat, you're talking about putting a million bucks or more on something that wont likely be profitable and even if the worst case scenario you're supposed to be prepparing for does occur, it wont do you much good either.

You'll probably have to leave the country or die, and you'll wish you had that money or gold at hand to relocate and start over instead of having spent it.
Better to be more mobile and be of the "eggs in different baskets" mentality. Again, my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own of course.



Bones said...

What happens if an earthquake ruptures the underground tanks, flattens your house and barn, knocks over your windmill, breaks your solar panels, etc.? The worst disasters are the ones that make your present location uninhabitable. There are many different kinds of disasters. Pays to be agile.

Anonymous said...

Exactly. One flood and your entire capital is toast. And even assuming a total meltdown scenario, nation-states aren't going to cease to exist everywhere forever...so within your lifetime (certainly your kids' lifetimes), if there is a world worth living in, somebody's going to be grabbing territory with an organized army. Humankind survived this long by packing it up when the shit gets too deep.

And as a practical matter, if you have the resources to build a fortress, you should fight like mad to keep the status quo, man! You're doing good. Good enough that with another ten years and prudent planning, you can have a moderate fortress AND the ability to retire in Aruba if the shit gets too deep.

But IMO Fernando is dead-on in his analysis. You have to live in society; that's the way it has been since the mid 1600s, and that's the way it's going to stay unless they discover a new continent. IMHO, going to live in the wild is a fantasy born of the Old West and the inherent problems of urban life. It's a good one that I'd like to live, too...but in the end, it's just daydreaming. Grown-ups have to work with reality as it is, not as we wish it would be.


Anonymous said...

A sad column for all the fans of doomer porn. ;)

FerFAL said...

Indeed, you can build a modern fortress. Modern being the key word.

Dont go old school building a darn fort in the middle of no where, be smart about it.

You can even take advantage of already well guarded locations, living next to them will give you more secuirty than the isolated fort.
Little money? An appartment next to a bank, court house or other type of building with good secuirty. Close to a military facility. You take advantage some secuirty you wont be paying a dime for. Incorporate this into your thinking, when for example buing real easte for investment.

There is indeed a lot of doom and gloom and I dont think it does any good to either people that lve in it or teh image it projects towards other people regarding the S&P community.
When you start making strage connection of events in such a far fetched way you have to remember what are the most lkikely real threats.

As somoene mentioned, dont worry about peak oil when you have 100 lbs of fat on you and a oil pipe blood pressure. You've got... other problems to worry about first so to speak.


Anonymous said...

Some people seem to have the mentality that it is un patriotic to leave. I have an idea of where things are going in the US; higher taxes, inflation, unemployment, more government interference. I told my father who has money, why not buy some Swiss or Singapore property, maybe give us a doorway to an extra citizenship, he won't listen. He believes one should stay and fight.

Loquisimo said...

I'm thinking of buying a couple acres, but nothing expensive, just something really cheap, like maybe $15k or so. Believe it or not, you can get a couple acres in places in CA for $15k and still be near people and water and etc. Put an old junky mobile home on it, fix it just enough to live in, build a couple sheds for rabbits and a cheap generator and a place for chickens, and bingo, homestead for $40k or so. People pay more for a new SUV, for God's sake. At that price, if you can't hold onto it it's no big deal.

I've seen posts from people talking about living out of an RV, and I looked at that too, and the biggest problem with that is income. Most people who travel the country have pensions, which of course won't be there much longer. If you actually have to WORK for a living, you're tied to one place, in which case you should just rent a place next to the courthouse. Or you can buy some cheap land and do the cheap homestead thing. Rawles is a moron. Or like Mel Tappan he has a secret source of funding that would shock everybody.

Loquisimo said...

Anon 9:00 am, my great-grandfather was born in Bern, Switzerland. I wonder if they'd give me citizenship... I have his Swiss birth certificate and everything.

Shambhala said...

If the USA is in such dire straits that youre thinking of leaving, just imagine how badly things are going elsewhere.
I may move to another state, but I doubt I'll take my chances in BFE

Anonymous said...

You give us a real world. You are living it, It's not "Hollywood" It's real. I won't say its right but it is real world.
Arrogant Americans, yes they are out there. they will find Darwin plays no favorites. Now I prefer to think of the USA as that shining city on the hill. But because I believe it, does not mean others believe it.
I thought I was smart, but you Ferfal gave me focus. We maybe wrong, but we are doing our best.

gaga said...

"Switzerland. I wonder if they'd give me citizenship... "

You can try, but I would not bet on it. I know people who were born in Switzerland and still can't get citizenship.

Citizenship of most EU countries would be much easier.. for now. For whatever maybe your beliefs about the socialist hell-hole of Europe, life there is much better than in the USA. And its likely to stay that way.