Monday, February 22, 2010

"Dirt War" and the current situation in Argentina

Hello from a regular reader!

I wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed your book. Unfortunately, reading "Surviving the Economic Collapse" made me realize how much time and money I had WASTED reading all the previous "survivalist" books, and what a bunch of nonsense 90 % of them are. I recommend your book to everyone I know who is interested in getting by during hard times.

With that said, I wanted to e-mail you because I was interested by your discussion on the situation with the Kircheners and the Argentine armed forces. I wrote my senior thesis in college on the Argentine "Dirty War" and read quite a bit about the Argentine military of this period. I have been seeing in the past few years that many former Argentine military officers have been hauled back into court both in Argentina and abroad and their amnesty agrements revoked. Most recently I saw that fmr General Videla has been placed under arrest.

As a student of this period in history, I am always curious to know how contemporary Argentines view the treatment of former soldiers from the "Dirty war" period. It seemed to me like the fight against the montoneros and other "revolutionary" groups was a vicious and nasty fight and the military to a large extent was acting to defend the country against ruthless terrorists. Do you think that events like 9/11, the emergence of Al Qaeda, the victory over the FARC in Columbia, and the misrule of figures like Chavez and the Kircheners have made people more sympathetic to the Argentine military? I dont know anyone in Argentina and would be really interested to know what your opinion is.

Keep up the great work with the blog and please put out another book!

Regards, Jeff

Hi Jeff, thanks for the nice words, glad you found it useful.
Regarding your question, at first it was a welcomed sight to see these true criminals behind bars, but then the leftist true colors of the Ks became visible, as well as their thirst for power.

It went from jailing dictators and murderers to completely demilitarizing the country, blaming them for everything they could think of .
With the human rights excuse we ended up with a country where criminals have more rights than the good guys.

A common line around here is that criminals walk free, while the good guys are the ones forced to live behind bars (burglar bars, that is)
The “rights” of the murderers and rapists are always of concern to the government, but law abiding citizens? No, they couldn’t care less.
It’s always disgusting the way in which, always waving the human rights excuse, the mothers of plaza de Mayo back up this dictatorship.
The exchange for their loyalty was putting the “junta” dictators behind bars but also a nice chunk of the booty.

The “Mothers of Plaza de Mayo” have unlimited credit in Argentina. Loans are given away to them by the national bank, no questions ask. Money is donated, their organization financed by the government directly.
What do they do? Support the government, promote communist agendas, support anti gun and anti self defense groups, support financially pro abortion groups, even a particular woman that stabbed her new born baby to death after giving birth to him in the toilet.
Her excuse? She had been raped by a neighbor… Afterwards we learned that he was in fact her lover, the man at the age of 40 had no criminal record or sexual assault history, just a long list of love affairs. They were both seen in the neighborhood walking around by the hand.

The personal fortune of the leader of the “Mothers”, Hebe de Bonafini is hard to account, but her political and social power is huge.
That’s their website, I’m not hotlinking because I don’t want to be linked to this group, which is a rather dark hand of the Ks.
IN their website you can read “¡NO TIENEN QUE LEER LAS NOTICIAS DE CLARÍN Y LA NACIÓN!” Which means, dont read the Clarín and La Nación newspapers, which are by the way the two largest news groups in the country, now deadly enemies of the Ks since they passed the new Media Law, that gives the Ks the right to ban media groups of any kind at their will through sanctions and articles that would make the group they want to destroy financial impossible to sustain.

The “mothers” are side by side with Cristina Kirchner, every political enemy the K dictatorship faces is fiercely attacked by Bonafini and the Mothers group.
Again, when explaining all this I can’t avoid recommending Matt Brackens book, Foreign Enemies.
Mauricio Macri is one of Cristina’s most hated adversaries, specially since Macri and his right wing “Pro” political party won the city of Buenos Aires.

The latest excuse to attack Macri? Macri wants to issue Tasers to the Buenos Aires city police, like any serious police force around the world.
But the Mothers saw this as a new excuse to bring the rotten corpses of their sons out of the grave: “Tasers are elements of torture!”they say, “Just like the “picanas” used by the torturers during the military dictatorship”.
These days most educated people see the “mothers” for what they are: Once a group of genuinely grieving mothers, now turned into a political group tool of the Ks, using the bleeding hear excuse whenever they can.
The problem in Argentina and in most Latin America to be honest is much more complex.

There’s been a systematic destruction of our culture. The higher levels of education reached by Argentina have been systematically attacked by the K. Stupid people repeat stupid things like idiots, and the Ks just love that.
You see, the more poor, uneducated people in Argentina, the better for them and the longer they can keep in power.

They’ll blame everything on USA, on capitalism, and first world countries, they’ll blame the “rich”, or anyone that rises above the average mediocre level. Redistribution is a key word as well.
“You’ve got money? Then share it with the poor, better yet, give it to us and we’ll do it for you. You don’t like it? We’ll just steal it from you, you capitalist pig!”
Who’s stupid enough to fall for all this. Poor, uneducated people. The kind of society they create!

It’s true that in a large percentage the military dictatorship killed innocent people as well. Its also true and almost banned to say so in Argentina, that many of the “deasparecidos” weren’t boy scouts either, they were murdering communists that kidnapped, killed and bombed. Extremes are never good.
Now we have a socialist dictatorship in our hands, telling us what we can or cant read, hear or watch on television, with strong links to local and international drug dealers and best buddies with the likes of Chavez.

I’ll tell you one thing, there’s still a part of the population that isn’t that stupid. A minority for sure, but they are out there, and they remember the days when, with the evil military dictators in power ( and some were truly evil) we had more freedoms and the streets weren’t nearly as dangerous to walk as they are now.



David said...

The only thing I can say about your post is that "less lethal" weapons like Tasers make the use of violence by the cops more likely. It's pretty obvious, actually, that if someone wants to argue and your choice (as a cop) is to shoot them or negotiate, most of the time it's a lot easier to justify talking. Not so if you have a Taser. You can just make the ride the T-train, maybe they'll wet themselves to boot.

I'm neither cop nor crook, but to me it's pretty obvious: If the cops are worried about their lives they'll use their guns. If their worried about their convenience (or their egos, assuming someone doesn't bow down to their badge and their costume), "less lethal" weapons make assault by angry cops tons more likely.
For more on this, I commend Will Grigg's blog where police abuses and crimes committed from behind the badge are chronicled.

Anonymous said...

Electricity is a time-honored method of extracting information--Vietnam, the Dirty War, Algiers, Chicago, you name it...if they had a field radio, they could squeeze you for a confession.

Seems like the Taser makes it much more convenient...but I'm told Latin American interrogators always regarded submarino as the most effective technique anyway, and all that takes is a tub of water, so what's the difference?

Don Williams said...

Clarification: Most insurgencies are unsuccessful if they aren't supported from outside by a foreign country. Vietnam's Viet Cong were able to resist the Saigon government and US forces because of the flow of support from North Vietnam and China.

Most Americans think we "overthrew" the British Crown in the American Revolution.

In reality, we would still be British subjects if not for the massive help we received from France and Spain. Including a covert operation early in the war to smuggle 100,000 muskets, gunpowder and cannon to America.

The French helped, of course, because North America was just one theater in a global Cold War they were fighting against Great Britain.

Argentina is stable because the US has long banned European and Asian powers from supporting South American insurgents --although there are signs that China may be ready to challenge this because of China's strong need to secure suppliers of raw materials like bauxite (for aluminum) and copper.

GotRocks said...

Outstanding read. I suspected in college (a long time ago) when the local commies were screaming about Allende that something funny was going on. I wondered: Why are they so angry about a person virtually no American ever heard of. So I researched it back then and found that he was in the process of turning Chile into another Cuba, and he got stopped...and Chile (after some hiccups) is doing great now, because Allende was disposed of.

Best of luck to you there.

Anonymous said...

I think the Taser is a great option, why should the police get hurt because someone's an asshole?

Why should they have to scuffle, they don't get paid enough to deal with the dregs of society.

In fact, if a prisoner ever committed violence against a staff member in prison, I think it should be the death penalty.

irishdutchuncle said...

"There's been a systematic destruction of our culture."

that is happening up here also, and they use the media and public education system to do it. the more money we spend on "education" the more our population of numbskulls increases. where in the world we could run from this i don't know.

i've tried to make the inside of our home (no burgular bars yet) an "educational experience" for my son; to offset the influences of our society as much as i can. keeping our children close as long as we can is the best hope for the future of our countries.

Anonymous said...

Tasers really should be given only to the most disciplined, intelligent and well trained police officers. Otherwise they'll just be misused.

This brings me to a question. Are there any *good* things about a collapsed country like Argentina? Or is everything that is good hidden away like some precious jewel only seen by the handful?

David said...

To Anonymous:
This is why it makes no sense whatsoever to withhold info once one is captured. Organizations that do not compartmentalize information in this day and age should not expect to persist.

On the other hand, it is my understanding that all honest studies show that actionable intelligence is best obtained by gaining trust and cooperation, not using torture. One guy who hates pain (and who doesn't?) with a creative mind could give the FBI enough false leads to occupy an army of agents for a decade running them down.

Torture is performed for one reason alone: SADISM. Anyone who believes otherwise has watched FOX network too long.

As to cops with Personal Electro Torture devices, all we need to know is that POWER CORRUPTS. There are no people angelic enough not to have their souls destroyed by wielding power over others.

DaShui said...

My friend is from Chile. He said that even though his family had money, they were engineers,the Marxist government passed a law where one could only buy food through government issued coupons. Those that supported the government received a lot more food. His family fully supported Pinochet. He also said at the time there were a lot of Cubans running around inside the country, up to no good. These are who Pinochet mainly killed.

Anonymous said...


Agreed regarding corruption. My point was simply that a Taser makes something easy that already is easy, but permits legit cops to have a level of force between "freeze!" and "punch you in the kidneys" and "bang bang." I guess a Taser lets you interrogate in the field since setting up a waterboard in your paddy wagon isn't viable, though...

ALso, "all honest studies show that actionable intelligence is best obtained by gaining trust and cooperation, not using torture"

To a point IMO. You can get a lot out of things like hate of allies and love of family, but that's only going to get so much information -- if Hamas or whoever will kill your family if you talk, love of family isn't going to induce you to turn over senior command. Torture is used by lazy or sick interrogators and by regimes that want to keep groups too afraid to fight back, agreed. But it is also used when the prisoner "clams up." It's a losing proposition in the long-term and should be strictly avoided, but it's not like these guys are just out there getting their rocks off.

Andrew said...

As a former Army officer, a simple-minded student of history, and a committed supporter of the American Bill of Rights (the cornerstone of which is the 2d RKBA), I cannot help wondering whether the absence of a strong standing military may be a good thing. In my old age, I am inclined to believe so. Far better for an armed civilian populace to endure a constrained government forced to mind its own damn business owing to weak military and police capabilities, than to support a massive military enabling sociopathic politicians and central bankers to impose their will on other societies, while impoverishing their own. My 2 bits. Thank you for your hard work.

Don Williams said...

From here in the USA at Philadelphia, pa --a news story re Tasers failing at
"A 23-year-old woman was critically injured when she was shot by police after allegedly slashing an officer with a knife in North Philadelphia this afternoon, police said.

Neighbors said the woman, whose name was not released, allegedly had behavioral problems and had terrorized the neighborhood: busting car windows with a baseball bat and threatening people with a knife.

Today's incident happened after officers responded about 4:45 p.m. to disturbance call inside an apartment on the 2500 block of West Montgomery Avenue and encountered the woman who was physically assaulting an aunt, said Lt. Frank Vanore.

The woman produced a knife and was ordered to drop it, but she refused, Vanore said. One of the officers then fired a Taser at her, but that did not subdue her.

The woman then allegedly cut Officer Leon Campbell Jr., 33, in the left hand and right arm, Vanore said.

Campbell's backup officer, who was not identified, shot the woman at least once in the abdomen and possibly the side or arm, Vanore said.

She was reported in critical but stable condition at Temple University Hospital.

Campbell, a six-year veteran of the force assigned to the 22d Police District, was reported in good condition at Temple and was expected to be released tonight.

The officer who shot the woman will be routinely removed from street duty pending the result of an investigation.

Neighbors said the woman's mother had told them that she suffered from bipolar disorder. Neighbors also alleged that the woman abused drugs."
People who criticize the police have no experience with the fucking scum that the police have to deal with.

In this case, I think police are better off with batons rather than Tasers.

And if they beat the perp's fucking brains out, then I will judge that that is just too damm bad for the perp if I am on the jury judging the officer.

Anonymous said...

"As to cops with Personal Electro Torture devices, all we need to know is that POWER CORRUPTS. There are no people angelic enough not to have their souls destroyed by wielding power over others.

February 23, 2010 7:31 AM"


My, how dramatic! "Electro Torture devices", "assault by angry cops", "bow down to their badge and costume". Problem with authority figures? A little advice, son. Stop reading all those blogs about those evil, nasty, sadistic cops and get out of your mom's basement once in awhile. You don't have a clue.

David said...

To "Anonymous,"
[My, how dramatic! "Electro Torture devices", "assault by angry cops", "bow down to their badge and costume". Problem with authority figures? A little advice, son. Stop reading all those blogs about those evil, nasty, sadistic cops and get out of your mom's basement once in awhile. You don't have a clue.]

Nothing like anonymity to make a man of a child. I suppose you're of the ilk who says that as long as you do what you're told, you'll have no problem ever with a cop.

Sallust was correct 2000 years ago; "most men do not desire freedom, most only wish for a just master."

I may well be older, better educated, better read, more traveled and wealthier than you. Your assumptions reflect your limitations, not mine.